WY NR hunters bend over...

[Zim]

I should have been more clear, I'm only interested in antelope, elk and deer.

boof, You are guaranteed absolutely nothing when you jump in the point games these days. Expect your NR points to be devalued at some point. But for lope, deer & elk it is still a reasonable good value to invest. However, I'd advise you not to hold out for the best units. Target some marginal units you can burn the points in every 3-5 years and get to learn. That is the best value for those points. After that the returns will be greatly diminished.

 

[mixedbag]

Very true Zim

 

[HighDesertSage]

.Seems like only Colorado wants NR anymore.

It shows during hunting season.....

 

[roadhunter]

#1 in a runaway...........Utah
#2 you know that
#3-5 anywhere SFW is stirring a pot

Zim,
You never did tell us why you thought Wyoming was #2 of all the states that have more of a "European" hunting model. What is your reasoning?

You also said Wyoming issues the most auction tags. How many do they issue? Is that considerably more than other surrounding states?

 

[Toadslayer]

It shows during hunting season.....

Here also. I don't know if any of you other WY guys have it that bad but try to hunt around here on the 1st of October. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a NR pickup truck. Many of us have to early archery hunt ONLY to avoid the crowds. I think 10% on antelope and deer tags would not hurt many residents feelings. Just my opinion of course.

I know many residents who don't hunt anymore at all because of all the NR.

 

[bob peterson]

Take note

Wyoming,
I have been responsible for bringing tens of thousands of dollars to your state over the last decade, this in the form of my own hunting expenditures and those I have recruited to accompany me. I always go with an outfitter/rancher. I have spent a fair amount of money on points with a reasonable expectation of drawing a quality tag that I based on the best information available at the time I started this process. Do not renege. If you choose to do so, I assure you that I won't return, nor will the 10 hunters I have discussed this with, and in all probability neither will the hundred or so that will be enlightened by those 10. There is nothing fuzzy about that math. You will lose tens of millions, overnight, and that amount again every year thereafter as the hunters don't return. I believe that is a very, very conservative estimate. Your move.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

Here also. I don't know if any of you other WY guys have it that bad but try to hunt around here on the 1st of October. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a NR pickup truck. Many of us have to early archery hunt ONLY to avoid the crowds. I think 10% on antelope and deer tags would not hurt many residents feelings. Just my opinion of course.

I know many residents who don't hunt anymore at all because of all the NR.

It wouldn't change the crowds. The overall numbers stay the same. It would only change the license plates to Wyo res from other counties. How is that any different?

 

[LopeHunter]

Wyoming,
I have been responsible for bringing tens of thousands of dollars to your state over the last decade, this in the form of my own hunting expenditures and those I have recruited to accompany me. I always go with an outfitter/rancher. I have spent a fair amount of money on points with a reasonable expectation of drawing a quality tag that I based on the best information available at the time I started this process. Do not renege. If you choose to do so, I assure you that I won't return, nor will the 10 hunters I have discussed this with, and in all probability neither will the hundred or so that will be enlightened by those 10. There is nothing fuzzy about that math. You will lose tens of millions, overnight, and that amount again every year thereafter as the hunters don't return. I believe that is a very, very conservative estimate. Your move.

Testify! Amen. Wyoming is not the only game in the West. Politicians will never aggressively raise fees on someone who votes in their district or state. That is why NR pay 10x. Is not because residents pay other taxes. Does the state charge NR more to fill up with gasoline? To stay at a hotel? To drive on the roads? No. NR cannot vote. Kick NR out and good luck finding a way to fill the shortfall. SFW is holding on Line 1 for the WY legislature. Lord have mercy.

 

[Zim]

Zim,
You never did tell us why you thought Wyoming was #2 of all the states that have more of a "European" hunting model. What is your reasoning?

You also said Wyoming issues the most auction tags. How many do they issue? Is that considerably more than other surrounding states?

roadhunter,
1-Because WY issues 2nd most auction tags for public land in the country.
2-No I did not. Go back and read.
3-Current list is posted on WYG&F website.
4-Yes.

 

[jvanderlinde]

I hunt a leftover antelope area near a highly populated city in Wyoming. Yes I am a non res and yes I see other non residents were I hunt. I don't see very many WY res of the beaten 2 track road which I hunt then hike and proceed to kill quality animals year after year. We're all in this together, prices are going to increase someday. So take it as it is and have fun and be friendly to your fellow outdoorsmen. We're all in this together.

 

[sbhooper]

I hunt a leftover antelope area near a highly populated city in Wyoming. Yes I am a non res and yes I see other non residents were I hunt. I don't see very many WY res of the beaten 2 track road which I hunt then hike and proceed to kill quality animals year after year. We're all in this together, prices are going to increase someday. So take it as it is and have fun and be friendly to your fellow outdoorsmen. We're all in this together.

Agreed.

 

[Old_Doe_Shooter]

Those LO tags will most likely increase (when game numbers permit) and are available for everyone. Good numbers already fail to sell out in some areas.

 

[mixedbag]

Toadslayer,how will turning the license plates to Wy. plates help you at all??What do you pay for your tag compared to us and are you willing to support your game/fish with those kind of tag fees to get rid of us??Show me a state where raising fees and reducing NR numbers have helped their game agencies.If you can't out hunt me as a NR from 2000 miles away then that's sad.I've hunted Wy on 5 different trips.For antelope the only time there was any competition was day one of rifle.After that, I was almost alone on a hunter management unit.For elk,I've yet to run into one hunter actually in the woods on public ground.To say your over run with NR is a big stretch of your imagination
In an earlier post,I said I could see doing the 10% for sheep,moose,goats but I don't agree with that anymore after listening to guys arguments that have 10+ years invested in your point system.How things were originally set up should remain unchanged.Residents should have complained then if it was such a big deal.
Then last year they tried to hit us with a big license increase.I'm seeing the way Wy. is heading so I'll use up my points and the only thing I'll keep buying a point for is a general elk tag.When those odds go down, I'll hunt another state.When they lose half of us who do you think will pay up in the future with big tag fees??If I was a resident, I'd thank my lucky stars that my tags were so cheap due to NR wanting to pay ridiculous fees just to hunt here with no access to wilderness and a big part of you having an access program.Take us out of the mix and see what you get.I may retire out there cause I like it so much but I will sure hope the NR will be around to keep my license cheap and at the same time not having to compete with them on wilderness elk hunts
How many more tags would residents get for moose,sheep anyway if they went to 10% for NR??Can't possibly be enough to really change your drawing odds significantly.Anyone have those percentages?

 

[roadhunter]

roadhunter,
1-Because WY issues 2nd most auction tags for public land in the country.
2-No I did not. Go back and read.
3-Current list is posted on WYG&F website.
4-Yes.

So I take it you don't want to discuss the actual numbers? Not sure why you are dodging but it is unnecessary. You might have a really good point, showing how Wyoming compares to other similar states as far as the number of auction tags sold, but it would mean much more with the actual numbers to compare instead of just saying they sold more tags.

I kinda look at transferable landowner tags as that same thing as an auction tag. They both allow the buyer to bypass the draw and purchase a tag. Because of that I look at other states like New Mexico and Colorado much worse than Wyoming. Wyoming like most states allows a few people to bypass the draw and purchase commissioners tags, New Mexico and Colorado allow tens of thousands of people to bypass the draw and buy landowner tags. Clearly they are much worse because of the sheer numbers of non draw tags available for purchase in those states. That is why most people list those states as being worse than Wyoming. That is also why I thought it was so odd that you listed Wyoming as the #2 worst state and asked you why you thought they were.

 

[jlmatthew]

Wyoming is trying to make Colorado even more crowded eh?

 

[Big Slick]

Wyoming is trying to make Colorado even more crowded eh?

No doubt!:hump:

 

[Zim]

So I take it you don't want to discuss the actual numbers? Not sure why you are dodging but it is unnecessary.

roadhunter,
There is nothing to discuss. I simply told you a mathematical fact. Dodging? You think I am lying that the auction tag numbers are available on the WYG&F website? I have a job and my own work to do. Why should I do more work and research for updates on things I already know and WYG&F employees already compiled and posted on their website for you? Just go there and have at it. You will find your confirmation there.

Start here. Why do you need someone to hold your hand? I am not doing any more of your work for you. Educate yourself. I have a job.

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/COMMISSIONER_LICENSE_INFO0000030.pdf

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/GOVERNOR_LICENSE_INFO0000031.pdf

You already missed out on this sheep tag:
http://bid.wildsheepfoundation.org/...SIONER-S-ELK-DEER-PRONGHORN-LICENSE_i18483143
but you can still pick up an elk tag from who else but The Society for Wildlife Forensic Science:
http://www.wildlifeforensicscience....-license-for-the-wyoming-2014-hunting-season/ as well as countless other causes.

Just Google for more. You know how to Google, right?

 

[roadhunter]

roadhunter,
There is nothing to discuss. I simply told you a mathematical fact. Dodging? You think I am lying that the auction tag numbers are available on the WYG&F website? I have a job and my own work to do. Why should I do more work and research for updates on things I already know and WYG&F employees already compiled and posted on their website for you? Just go there and have at it. You will find your confirmation there.

Start here. Why do you need someone to hold your hand? I am not doing any more of your work for you. Educate yourself. I have a job.

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/COMMISSIONER_LICENSE_INFO0000030.pdf

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/GOVERNOR_LICENSE_INFO0000031.pdf

You already missed out on this sheep tag:
http://bid.wildsheepfoundation.org/...SIONER-S-ELK-DEER-PRONGHORN-LICENSE_i18483143
but you can still pick up an elk tag from who else but The Society for Wildlife Forensic Science:
http://www.wildlifeforensicscience....-license-for-the-wyoming-2014-hunting-season/ as well as countless other causes.

Just Google for more. You know how to Google, right?

Wow. You seem really confrontational for some reason. The intelligence and other various insults are real classy as well. Do you always act like this?

It's not my job to prove your statements to be true. You brought up auction tag numbers and made some statements about where Wyoming ranked compared to other states but never bothered to give any actual data to prove your point.

I also never said you were lying, not sure where you came up with that. All you had to do was say something like Wyoming has XX auction tags which is only behind ?State in the total number of auction tags sold which makes them #2 in the country. Wyoming is also ahead of ?State and ?State who have XX and XX number of auction tags. Pretty simple.

Anyhow you are entitled to your opinion. You will notice that the other people who ranked the states did not put Wyoming that high on the list for some reason. There is more to the "European" model than just auction tags. You also have to include things like transferable landowner tags as they accomplish many of the same thing as auction tags.

 

[fowladdict]

Here also. I don't know if any of you other WY guys have it that bad but try to hunt around here on the 1st of October. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a NR pickup truck. Many of us have to early archery hunt ONLY to avoid the crowds. I think 10% on antelope and deer tags would not hurt many residents feelings. Just my opinion of course.

I know many residents who don't hunt anymore at all because of all the NR.

As a non-resident, I have had the exact opposite experience. My family and I have been hunting WY every other year or so since 1989. We have learned that if you want lower hunter pressure, don't hunt on the weekends. Once the sun comes up on Saturday morning the resident trucks really take over.

 

[Monteman11]

You are correct. You are buying a chance. A chance that was never guaranteed or certain. Where I differ is that I do not see it as a slap in the face but rather a change to the system to attempt to fix something that is perceived to be broken. To me it is the same as adjusting the price of the tag through the years. To me it is no more of slap in the face than when the cost of a PP was increased.

It is clear that we have two very different perspectives on this issue and that no amount of discussion is going to bring either of us closer to the other's viewpoint. I do appreciate the respectful discussion and I wish you the best of luck in drawing tags and hopefully your hunts.

When you do draw your Wyoming tags let me know if I can be of any help to you.

Perceived to be broken by who? The current system brings in a larger amount of money from nonresidents than it does from residents, and the residents get 4x the amount of tags. You would be foolish to think that the G&F of all westerns states aren't shy about cashing in on the nonresidents to support lower fees for residents and pay their budgets. The fact is the "free" money they bring in with points, unused licenses (re Arizona) and etc are a very large portion of their operating budget. Luckily, nonresidents have obliged the states by giving them money in order to obtain a chance, 15-20 years down the road mind you, at a once in a lifetime hunt. The G&F in turn gets a better operating budget that will ultimately only keep resident hunting prices lower AND provide better opportunities to these resident hunters through game programs of all sorts that said nonresident may never enjoy. If residents want all the cake, then they should be forced to pay for it without complaint, but we all know that will never work. Instead, they stick it to the nonresidents with no voice and we continue to pay. And lets not forgot all of those that never draw because they either cannot financially continue or pass on.

For those that are getting close, it is a cut and dry bait and switch. Promise fair odds for a nonresident to eventually draw a tag, collect thousands of $$ from them, and then when they get close double their wait time. Seems fair, right? I have a feeling any other walk of life everyone would throw up their arms when they were about to pay their bill and it was doubled right as they were about to checkout.