WY NR hunters bend over...

[Zim]

I am in the same situation, as I just started last year. I am 24 so I have time to build points but questioning whether or not moose and sheep is worth it. What would you guys do? And still wondering if Zim and Roadhunter are done?

The Wyoming sheep & moose lottery, for anyone at any age, thinking of starting now from ground zero (no points), is nothing more than a tax on people bad at math.

I actually dumped a total of 28 sheep points (7 x myself + 3 sons) to bail on it when they jacked the application fees. Simple math told me to do this. From zero points today I don't know how you can't figure this out, so I give up trying to help.

You'd save yourself lots time and effort, and enjoy yourself more by taking those $75 & $100 donations X 50 years and heading to Vegas now. I am dead serious about this..............unless they change the draw system somehow down the road? Do the math.

 

[Zim]

Zim,
I have tried to take the high road at every opportunity with you.
I was mistaken about you claiming Wyoming was #1, you actually said #2. I simply made a mistake and am not afraid to admit I was wrong..

Seems your "high road" includes admitting you lied only after it is pointed out 3 times!

 

[Zim]

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/COMMISSIONER_LICENSE_INFO0000030.pdf

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/GOVERNOR_LICENSE_INFO0000031.pdf

As you can see, I posted these links previously, but here goes again.

How many "commissioners" are there today 2/21/2014?

Multiply per two links above for your tag answer.

I have to go work now. I am not retired.

 

[roadhunter]

Zim,

I'm also interested in the other tags that WY issues that are "under the radar".

I sit on the WGBLC and I'm pretty certain I'd know about any additional transferable tags, governors tags, etc.

I think you need to clarify your statements.

+1

 

[Zim]

Zim,

I'm also interested in the other tags that WY issues that are "under the radar".

I sit on the WGBLC and I'm pretty certain I'd know about any additional transferable tags, governors tags, etc.

I think you need to clarify your statements.

As I posted links to in the links above twice, I am referring to the governors tags, which can number "up to" 30 (not 25 as someone posted). These include 5 very valuable sheep tags and 5 moose tags. It doesn't look like these are readily advertised by the WYF&G as they are issued? I don't see them on their website, at least yet.

Add to these any bison tags, which are not mentioned in either of the links I posted above. If there were 5 of those that would be 56 + 30 + 5 = 91 ??? Who knows?

Utah has over 500 wealth tags. Auction or raffle, its the same thing. Tags stolen from the regular draw.

 

[BuzzH]

Zim,

I dont think you read the link you provided.

Like I already stated, I'm on the WGBLC and there are only a total of 20 governors tag available, with no more than 5 sheep and 5 moose tags.

Last year 5 bison tags were added for a total of 25 (as far as I know only 1 governors bison tag was issued last year). Not sure what the status will be this year on bison, but I'll find out soon as the yearly meeting is held in May.

The governors tags are not handled under the table, they're handled by Wyoming Wildlife the Foundation.

As you'll notice, there are only currently 20 tags that have been allocated to various groups (90% of the funds are returned to WWF).

http://www.wyomingwildlifefoundatio...2014/2014 WGBGLC Auctions Raffles Sellers.pdf

I respect your right to not support or even like these programs, but it would be nice if you would get your facts straight.

Theres enough misinformation out there without adding to it.

 

[Zim]

I dont think you read the link you provided.

Like I already stated, I'm on the WGBLC and there are only a total of 20 governors tag available, with no more than 5 sheep and 5 moose tags.

Last year 5 bison tags were added for a total of 25 (as far as I know only 1 governors bison tag was issued last year). Not sure what the status will be this year on bison, but I'll find out soon as the yearly meeting is held in May.

I respect your right to not support or even like these programs, but it would be nice if you would get your facts straight.

Excuse me, but I posted on this thread what.........10 times?.......including the links for anyone to go read and interpret, before getting prodded to hold roadhunter's hand explaining how I'd interpret them. That governor's license wording is very poor. On top of that, that governor's license wording, which claims to be current, and is clearly posted on the WYF&G website today, says absolutely nothing about the additional bison tags. So how can I or anyone else possibly be criticized for "getting facts straight"? That is absurd. I never claimed to be an expert, and tried on numerous accounts to avoid taking the time calculating a precise number. Tried like hell. But that just doesn't satisfy some people.

It doesn't matter. Be it 56 or 76 or 81 or 91...........MY PRIMARY POINT was that Wyoming ranks #2 of all states in these wealth/auction tags, and I stand by that claim 100% Period. If I am wrong about that, and you want to flame on me, you go right ahead, and I will admit I am wrong. In the meantime...................

 

[Zim]

Zim,

I respect your right to not support or even like these programs

Good.........because I don't.

In fact, I personally played a key role in blowing up the biggest one time auction tag legislation in any state...............as far as I know................AZ HB2072. 350 of the best trophy tags Arizona had to offer...........to be stolen from the general lottery. And I am dam proud I did it, for everyone, not just myself. In fact, Randy himself helped me, by providing me with a bribe list of AZSFW campaign contributions to the bill sponsor.

I believe in the North American Model for Wildlife Conservation, and took action to protect it. I found that much more productive than debating with dopes like Birdman and other DP plants on web forums. All the former AZSFW board members are down the river and out of town! Sometimes ya just gotta take the trash out.

 

[Zim]

IIRC, there are 45 commission tags and 25 governors tags...so a total of around 70.

BTW - How do you get 45 if that number is not divisible by 8? (8 tags per commissioner) How many commissioners are there? I am not an expert, but I have reason to believe there are not 5.625 commissioners. Oak mentions 7?

 

[bob peterson]

Steve, I have 10 moose points and am sorry now I am in it...... golden chains. The NR tag price, plus what I'll have spent in points - you're in for thousands without leaving your driveway. If WY restricts these permits to the degree being discussed, I will probably just drop out and cut my losses. Seems like that is what many folks out there would like me to do anyway, by the tone of the discussion I have noted.

 

[roadhunter]

BTW - How do you get 45 if that number is not divisible by 8? (8 tags per commissioner) How many commissioners are there? I am not an expert, but I have reason to believe there are not 5.625 commissioners. Oak mentions 7?

Ahh the Irony. Now you want him to provide data to support his claims. LMAO

The funny part is how you avoided providing any numbers to back up your claims but now you are asking him to do the same thing you avoided.

You had every opportunity to inform and educate folks on how Wyoming is the "#2 European hunting model state" according to you. Instead you chose to argue, fight, insult, make up stories, and make a fool of yourself for no reason.

BTW, You never did tell us which states are "selling off public land a little at time?"

You see that is how these states sell out the public land, little at a time to minimize criticism like Utah brazenly receives. But most states have just 5 to 10, not 100 or 500..

I am going to assume this is just more misinformation that you are spreading as I have never heard about this going on but if you want to tell us which state and provide documentation of them "selling off public land a little at a time" feel free. Might be a good opportunity to save face after your other claims like "Wyoming selling tags under the radar" was proven to be completely false.

 

[Zim]

Ahh the Irony. Now you want him to provide data to support his claims. LMAO

The funny part is how you avoided providing any numbers to back up your claims but now you are asking him to do the same thing you avoided.

You had every opportunity to inform and educate folks on how Wyoming is the "#2 European hunting model state" according to you. Instead you chose to argue, fight, insult, make up stories, and make a fool of yourself for no reason.

BTW, You never did tell us which states are "selling off public land a little at time?"

I am going to assume this is just more misinformation that you are spreading as I have never heard about this going on but if you want to tell us which state and provide documentation of them "selling off public land a little at a time" feel free. Might be a good opportunity to save face after your other claims like "Wyoming selling tags under the radar" was proven to be completely false.

roadhunter, You are one F'd up dude. I posted over and over again those auction links and you refused to open them and calculate them for yourself. Instead demanding me to do it. So I finally do it for you.........and yet you continue to whine! WTF? Ain't no satisfying you! Why don't you interpret the links, calculate & post? See what you get.

Did you go find any state a close 3rd yet?

The selling off public land a little at a time is clearly a reference to the public resources aka game, not physical real estate. I used the analogy to all the members of the Arizona legislature when I slammed the door on AZ HB2072. They all seemed to understand just fine! Many returning e-mails thanking me for educating them on how the big game tag distribution system works. They did not know!

BTW - I failed to include the "Super Tag" and whatever else they got that is similar. Add those to the 81 or 91. Might even top that 100 mark you keep harping about. Did you go to the Utah G&F website to confirm my 500+ figure? I am not doing that one for you.

Now SFW Alaska is making a play to take over the #3 spot:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/21656.html#.UwuN1tznZLM
I am working on putting a stop to it, like I did in Arizona. Why not do something productive and help out?

"selling tags under the radar" = 5 mysterious bison tags which don't appear anywhere on any documents on the WYG&F website, unless you can post the link? They certainly are not on the 2014 commissioner & governor license links I posted 3 times. That is just one example. There may be others we don't know about?

 

[Zim]

Anyone know if these "Supertags" come out of the commissioner's tags? If not, that could put WY over the 100 wealth tag figure. I counted 13 Supertags while I was making changes in my deer application. Says a guy can purchase 50 of these things.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes, I know they dont come out of the commission tags.

Still not over 100 wealth tags, even though the supertags are cheap raffle.

I also saw your question about the bison tags, and I'll clear that one up for you. Surprised you didnt stay on top of the issue, since I posted what was going on last session on many of the boards you frequent, including this one.

The Supertag and Bison bills were both introduced by your old pal Bob Wharff of WYSFW. I testified in committee, by writing, and also phone calls or in person on both of these bills. Beings how Wharff torpedo'd every license fee increase, the TRW committee was more than willing to go out of their way to pass anything that they thought would be a revenue stream. Their way of "helping" the GF.

The supertag idea passed, as most Resident hunters see themselves opening an email congratulating them on their supertag they just won. I guess they dont understand draw odds, but thats what the majority wanted, and thats what we ended up with.

As to the way the bison bill happened, well, that is a longer story. I personally dont think there was that much support for it, but there was also not much opposition. I still contend that the TRW committee as well as the Legislature in general must have received more calls against it. But, the noise just wasnt there to stop the bill...something that wont happen again. Yeah, I agree, it would have been nice for the various groups to be more organized.

These two bills passing, along with the denial of license fee increases, is the exact reason the Wyoming Sportmens Alliance was formed and has taken shape.

To carry on with Bison bill, and why those tags are still not showing up. The reason that Bob Wharff pushed them from the start was for 2 reasons:

1. Bob was sure that if there were 5 bison Governors tags, a new committee would be formed within the WGBGLC. He had already asked to be on that Committee and figured himself a "shoe in".

2. He figured that WYSFW would get some of the tags.

In true form, Wharff also worked a back handed deal with someone at the Governors office, (yes, I know who worked the deal with him, and NO I'm not going to disclose that information) to get one of the 5 permits that could have potentially been offered last year.

As a member of the WGBGLC, Moose committee, I didnt even know about the one bison tag promised to Wharff, until our annual meeting in Casper.

In another sweetheart deal, Wharff further feathered his own nest, by WYSFW take 30% of the funds from the sale of that lone bison tag. That is in complete disregard to the standing rules that allow only 10% of the sale of the tags to be kept by the group that sells any Governors tags.

When I heard this at the WGBGLC meeting, I wasnt too happy, and shared my "feelings" about SFW and how that group operates. The other committee members were also not happy.

Wharff/WYSFW were awarded the tag, and supposedly raffled it off. I havent seen the numbers on how much money they raised.

It was also decided at the Casper meeting that there would not be a bison committee, but rather have the funds from the bison governors tags go into the "all wildlife" pool. This makes sense because there likely wont be many bison projects to fund, but we will consider funding any that should come up.

It was also decided, that since the Bison Governors license were adopted so late in the year, that it would be about impossible to market them. There really isnt any way to gauge who should be selling these tags, how much they will go for, and what kind of a demand there will be. There were a couple options discussed, but I havent heard how the tags are going to be handled.

Believe it or not Zim, some "good" came from the "mysterious" bison gov. tags. I have a lot more I could add, but wont for some very good reasons.

I will send you a PM with my phone number if you want to discuss further, and I can fill you on some of the other details I dont feel comfortable sharing on a forum.

 

[JM77]

Look under Title 23 in the Wyo Stautes:

25 Governor tags (mystery bison tags are listed in statute)
56 Commissioner tags (7 appointed members x 8)
10 Super Raffle (7 + 3 trifecta, can't count bear, wolf, or lion they are OTC tags)

Total is 91

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Look under Title 23 in the Wyo Stautes:

25 Governor tags (mystery bison tags are listed in statute)
56 Commissioner tags (7 appointed members x 8)
10 Super Raffle (7 + 3 trifecta, can't count bear, wolf, or lion they are OTC tags)

Total is 91

***Those bear, wolf, and lion raffle tags are a real stumper for me when I saw them on the list! Why in the heck would anyone buy chances on them when they are OTC tags? Could it be that they are not in the requirement to quit hunting them when a quota is met like the OTC tags?

 

[mr_steve]

Yeah I had the same thought. I am curious how many people put in for the super tags. Do they ever release that?

 

[Zim]

Supertags are another tax on people bad at math.

 

[JWP58]

It depends on what you want to hunt and what quality of area. If this plan goes through I feel it is a waste of money on Moose and Sheep unless you like real thin odds and are a young man.

Oh you mean like being a resident and hoping you hit the lotto and get lucky? Ya must be real tough.....

Here also. I don't know if any of you other WY guys have it that bad but try to hunt around here on the 1st of October. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a NR pickup truck. Many of us have to early archery hunt ONLY to avoid the crowds. I think 10% on antelope and deer tags would not hurt many residents feelings. Just my opinion of course.

I know many residents who don't hunt anymore at all because of all the NR.

Ditto.


My last comment would be, Im simply surprised ANYTHING gets voted on in the Capitol city since most of the representatives are too busy drinking and playing grab ass around town to know what the hell they are actually in town for.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Supertags are another tax on people bad at math.

I have no problems with raffles. Everyone has the same chance of winning since it's a random draw. I suppose you could chum the waters and buy thousands of dollars of chances, but there is still no guarantee that you'll win.

And if history continues to repeat itself: I'd never get my ticket pulled. I am the world's worst raffle winner.