Wyominng Bill-HB 0149

[jimss]

I wouldn't exactly say Buzz was fighting hard for both res and NR on recent Wyo legislation! He hasn't come out and said it but he actually supported the 90:10 deal. He also supports the 60:40 proposal as well. If you believe Buzz is trying to smooth things over between res and nonres take a look at his posts on the Monstermuley website!

 

[elkantlers]

IMO, this is a done deal....

Where have we heard this before?

 

[alwayshunting]

I wouldn't exactly say Buzz was fighting hard for both res and NR on recent Wyo legislation! He hasn't come out and said it but he actually supported the 90:10 deal. He also supports the 60:40 proposal as well. If you believe Buzz is trying to smooth things over between res and nonres take a look at his posts on the Monstermuley website!

I have always valued Buzz's posts and opinions here and was a bit surprised yesterday by reading his comments over there. Almost surprised enough to think someone else was using his account at first. Maybe I am just naïve, but he definitely had a different tone then what I have seen in the past, which is too bad.

 

[WapitiBob]

A well played strategy by WYOGA no doubt. It goes to show you need to be careful about the allies you choose.

A 90/10 split on the big three is the norm, but many on the Bowsite were talking class action suit, etc because of the "implied promise" that their preference points would get them their tag someday and this would torpedo that.

Three things stand out to me through this:

Never align yourself with an outfitters/guides association as a NR, DIY guy
Preference points suck and create an expectation of a tag
Folks will do anything to preserve the "value" of their PP

The apathy on bowsite towards this legislation is disturbing.

 

[WapitiBob]

There are no unsold special draw tags.

 

[elkantlers]

I have always valued Buzz's posts and opinions here and was a bit surprised yesterday by reading his comments over there. Almost surprised enough to think someone else was using his account at first. Maybe I am just naïve, but he definitely had a different tone then what I have seen in the past, which is too bad.

When people are two faced, The only thing you know for sure is that you can't trust either of them.

 

[jimss]

Alwayshunting, you may want to take a look at the archive posts by Buzz on Monstermuleys. It's a lot of the same thing!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Heres the deal.

As much as I don't want to say this, you guys are hosed as NR's.

There are those, like flopgun, claiming that SF69 and HB149 are "not related"....well, they are.

***First off, my name is not flopgun and I would appreciate it if you would act like a gentleman when you reference anything concerning myself since I don't call you names. Further, these two Bills are not related, other than they are both an attempt to further rape the NR hunters of Wyoming! One was introduced in the Senate and the other in the House. The NRs and WYGOA fought and won yesterday regarding SF 69 because it was obviously not to the benefit of either. That fact doesn't mean that I or any other NR is aligned with them and I also haven't given them one penny. If that were the case, then you are now aligned with them since you have already stated on MM that you're in their corner and will fight to see that HBO149 passes to flip the 60/40 reg/special percentage to 40/60!

Actually, to fully understand this issue we have to back up to last session. Last year, a bill was introduced to reduce the allocation of ALL species in Wyoming to a 90/10 split. That bill panicked WYOGA, and rightfully so. It panicked me as well, as I have no doubt that bill would have crushed the WYGF department. Well it didn't pass, and rightfully so.

In the moment of panick, WYOGA set up a "Wyoming Hunter Defense Fund" to combat the tag allocation on ALL species.

Well, this year word gets around that another bill is in the works to only do the 90/10 allocation for moose, sheep, goat, bison, and hopefully soon, grizzly bears. WYOGA starts a campaign, lying like a bunch of cheap rugs, that the new bill will be for ALL species.

***Everyone in the know on every website I'm on knew exactly what that new Bill was for and saying anything different is total hogwash! Contrary to what BuzzH spouts, he is not the only one that knows what's going on in Cheyenne.

SF69 is introduced to bring WY in line with ALL other states in allocation of MSGB tags, a 90/10 split. WYOGA, for obvious reasons, ramps up the effort, spreading fear into NR sheep hunters. We're talking a combined 78 total tags for all 4 species. Meanwhile WYOGA keeps getting more and more money funneled to them in the "Wyoming" hunter "defense" fund.

***You have no idea what monies were "funneled" to the defense fund started by WYOGA or who gave what. Furthermore, taking even ONE tag away from a NR right in the middle of the ballgame that he's been playing faithfully for 15 or 20 years was not fair, plain and simple! You have stated WYOGA lied about things, yet the proponents of the Bill like yourself certainly weren't up front regarding the monetary ramifications if that Bill had passed. Senator Hicks made no mention of the many thousands of dollars that could be lost if/when many participants quit buying PPs and dropped out. That fact alone when it was presented to the entire Committee is probably what caused it to go down 4-1.

WYOGA continues the smear campaign and Trojan horse argument about how bad the loss of 78 tags is going to be to local economies.

***Smear campaign, LOL! Any money that the G&F loses along with the other monies that the state would lose, along with many dropping out of the PP race is significant if you're a person depending on that money.

The bill is heard yesterday and was defeated. WYOGA paid to fly Kyle Meintzer from Nevada to Cheyenne to testify against the bill. Poor Kyle is 66 years old and only has 15 sheep points, this bill will make him 120 years old before he draws. Chris Brown with the Hotel and Restaurant Lobby, he claims that 78 tags will have "huge economic impact on his businesses' and that "we already HAVE the resident money, we don't have the NR money. (He'll be getting a lesson here soon, as well as the businesses he "represents")

***So you're saying that poor old Kyle and the rest of the PP holders that would never have a chance at a tag if the Bill had passed should have just rolled over and let the bus run over them after they're told they would no longer have a chance at a tag if the Bill passed?! What a nice guy you are!

But, what this bill did, was to fund the chit out WYOGA and embolden them. Many NR's wrote the Wyoming Legislature that the "funding" shortfall would be catastrophic.

***Again, you have no idea what money the WYOGA took in to fight the Bill or who, if anyone, gave money! Also, how do you know what the NRs wrote in their letters or emails to use the word "catastrophic"? Simple answer is that you don't!

Pretty lame, IMO for a bunch of NR hunters to fund/support WYOGA, over not drawing a sheep tag, or having to wait a bit longer to draw.

***The only thing lame is your incessant ranting that the NRs are supporting the WYOGA just because they happened to both be on the same side of this particular fight to defeat SF69. There really was no choice when it was either fight it or just roll over and play dead like it sounds like you're saying the NRs that were involved in this should have done, LOL!

Even more ridiculous when every NR hunter knows the following about WYOGA:

1. They contribute not a single penny to the GF Department.
2. They passed the Wilderness Guide Law, the most restrictive law for NR access on the books.
3. Tiered license fees for NR's, currently 40/60 split Special/regular.
4. Lobbied successfully and passed the Legislation to raise moose points to $75 and sheep to $100.
5. Have lobbied repeatedly to increase fees on NR only.

***Again, anyone involved in hunting in Wyoming knows all about what the WYOGA stands for and it certainly isn't for the NR sportspersons! Just because they were against SF69 doesn't mean that the NRs shouldn't have also fought it as it sounds like you're suggesting!

One would think, that NR's knowing the way WYOGA has asshandled them in the past, they would be smart enough to not support WY financially or through emails over this 90/10 split.

***Again, you have no idea or facts to suggest that other than a couple of people on MM that said they were donating money did so. Only one NR testified against the Bill before the Committee that may have been paid for by WYOGA to the best of my knowledge. You already mentioned that gentleman by name and he had already stated he was going on his own to Cheyenne to testify against it. In fact, he sent me a PM on the Bowsite website asking me if I knew what the Bill number was before it had even been given a number and introduced or WYOGA was even mentioned! The fact that he then may have been helped out on his expenses by WYOGA was his choice, if he even was. I don't know and don't really care since it was his choice if he did. All I know is that he was in meetings with their lobbyist on Monday night and then testified in behalf of NR hunters on Tuesday morning and from what I heard he did one heck of a good job and put Hicks in his place after his BS comments that were lies!


Now, the very group that they supported (wyoga), introduced a bill (hb149), AFTER the 90/10 bill failed. This bill will flip the 40/60 to 60/40.

***Just more hashing of what you've already said 20 times since yesterday when the Bill was defeated! We get it! The WYOGA is not for the average Joe hunter! Surprise, surprise, surprise to nobody, LOL!

A bunch of self-serving sheep point holders just layed the pipe to THOUSANDS of NR elk, deer, and pronghorn hunters. Guys like Flopgun tripped all over themselves supporting WYOGA on the 90/10, and are now "opposed" to WYOGA breaking it off in their ass with the 60/40 bill.

***Baloney! All the NRs did was stand up for themselves to stop a Bill from going through that would have taken many right out of the PP game after they've spent thousands of dollars and now would never draw a tag in their lifetime! I DID NOT SUPPORT WYOGA in any way shape or form, so quit slandering me! I also could care less who brought HBO149 to the floor because it sucks, regardless of who is behind it.

This bill is 100% the work of WYOGA, it has nothing to do with Resident Sportsmen. We Residents have asked for fee increases on ourselves the last several sessions and were denied by the Legislature. Denied for purely political reasons, nothing to do with the age old fairy tale that "residents are too cheap to pay more and want to stick it to the NR's."

***Nobody said it has anything do with other than the WYOGA. We also understand that the residents aren't paying their fair share of the G&F budget and whether it's due to the Legislators or anything else doesn't help us one bit when we keep getting the shaft every time we turn around because it's the easy way out!

That's not true at all guys, its just not, we have tried to raise R fees.

Now, guys like flopgun are saying that I wont do anything to help the average guy and try to kill this 60/40 bill.

***I don't expect you to do anything to help me, but it's very obvious to all of us on MM after reading your BS that you are in a retaliation mode when you have stated you're now all for HBO149 and will fight for it, which most certainly aligns you with the outfitters that you so hate!!! Talk about a hypocrite!

Frankly, I cant do it alone and I don't have the money to fly NR's to Cheyenne to testify. Sadly, some major league dipshit NR's have chosen to financially support, as well as write letters to help WYOGA to the demise of thousands to make sure they get their sheep tag sooner...

***So you're not God after all, huh! How many times do you plan to keep stating this same old garbage about the lousy NRs? It's getting real old in just the short time since SF69 that you basically stated was a slam dunk on MM and that you were going to put WYOGA in it's place once and for all got axed 4-1! Yep, you really showed everyone of us and those in Cheyenne how much clout you have, LOL!


IMO, this is a done deal...sadly.

If this is a done deal and you're so sad, it sure doesn't sound like it!

***My comments to the BS posted by Mr. BuzzH!

 

[jryoung]

I wouldn't exactly say Buzz was fighting hard for both res and NR on recent Wyo legislation! He hasn't come out and said it but he actually supported the 90:10 deal. He also supports the 60:40 proposal as well. If you believe Buzz is trying to smooth things over between res and nonres take a look at his posts on the Monstermuley website!

I'm confused, Buzz's post is pretty clear that he supports the 90/10.

 

[Flatrock]

I'm so glad I popped a bag of popcorn tonight.

 

[jimss]

vdo84, you are a funny man, stay tuned for the finalie!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I'm confused, Buzz's post is pretty clear that he supports the 90/10.

He not only supported it, but was in Cheyenne lobbying to see that it passed and bragged on MM that it was going to be close to a slam dunk, LOL! He got his butt handed to him on a platter with a 4-1 vote against, is now all bent out of shape and going to retaliate by lobbying for the 60/40 to 40/60 split that the WYOGA is backing! And he calls me floppy and flopgun, LOL! What a hypocrite!

 

[jryoung]

Okay, neat. But Jims noted that he supported 90/10 as if it was some secret...his language is pretty clear of his stance.

 

[Triple BB]

When people are two faced, The only thing you know for sure is that you can't trust either of them.

Do they get a pass if they're bi-polar???

 

[JLS]

There are no unsold special draw tags.

So there are always more applicants than permits? I'm asking because I'm too lazy to look it up myself. Do you envision this staying the same with the higher quota of special draw tags?

 

[JLS]

He not only supported it, but was in Cheyenne lobbying to see that it passed and bragged on MM that it was going to be close to a slam dunk, LOL! He got his butt handed to him on a platter with a 4-1 vote against, is now all bent out of shape and going to retaliate by lobbying for the 60/40 to 40/60 split that the WYOGA is backing! And he calls me floppy and flopgun, LOL! What a hypocrite!

If I was a Wyoming resident, I would have supported it and lobbied for it also. I would expect my home state to look out for me first as a resident when it comes to the premier species.

I've got no problem with the 90:10 split. However, as a NR I don't like where things are going with the higher percentage of special draw tags. As a NR, I expect some equity in pricing. Right now, I think Wyoming offers that.

As I said, I would think long and hard before aligning myself with WYOGA. And, I hate preference points.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Why don't the internet tough guys go have a pillow fight and sell some tickets? We'll donate the proceeds to SWF, PETA, or some other worthy organization in the loser's name.

I think I'll sign off for the evening to go read The Watchtower or maybe even the manual for the DVD player. Either one will make me no dumber or more confused than some of today's activity on this post.

 

[WapitiBob]

So there are always more applicants than permits? I'm asking because I'm too lazy to look it up myself. Do you envision this staying the same with the higher quota of special draw tags?

Tags not drawn in the Special move to the Regular and are added to the original Regular quota, then split for the PP and Random draws (on a per hunt basis). So you never have any Special leftovers. After the random they go thru another process and fill out the legislated 7,250 full price allotment.

Antelope are different in that the residents draw first, then leftovers are combined with the original NR %. After the nr regular draw, they go back thru a resident side additional draw, then leftovers become leftover.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

If I was a Wyoming resident, I would have supported it and lobbied for it also. I would expect my home state to look out for me first as a resident when it comes to the premier species.

I've got no problem with the 90:10 split. However, as a NR I don't like where things are going with the higher percentage of special draw tags. As a NR, I expect some equity in pricing. Right now, I think Wyoming offers that.

As I said, I would think long and hard before aligning myself with WYOGA. And, I hate preference points.

You missed the point JLS! The NRs had no choice about fighting that attempt to go to a 90/10 split. That doesn't mean they're aligned with WYOGA just because that organization was also against it. Like I stated earlier, BuzzH stated openly on MM that he is going to fight for the 60/40 to 40/60 reversal and I fully understand that a resident would do that to get more money for the G&F. However, it's very simple for him to do that since he has no skin in the game on this one like he did on SF69 because it's strictly another screwing of the NRs on their side of the draw. The big thing I'm trying to get across is that if he does that it should mean that he's now aligning himself with the WYPGA, which we all know he detests. You can't have it one way and say that the NRs were aligned with WYOGA on the 90/10 split and then turn right around and fight for the same thing they are on this next Bill and say you're not! The one thing I've always agreed with BuzzH is that there should be no PPs system and everyone should be in a fair, impartial random draw for available tags. Some of the tough ones should then be made a OIL tag after a person draws them like sheep, goats, moose and Bison.

 

[JLS]

You missed the point JLS! The NRs had no choice about fighting that attempt to go to a 90/10 split. That doesn't mean they're aligned with WYOGA just because that organization was also against it. Like I stated earlier, BuzzH stated openly on MM that he is going to fight for the 60/40 to 40/60 reversal and I fully understand that a resident would do that to get more money for the G&F. However, it's very simple for him to do that since he has no skin in the game on this one like he did on SF69 because it's strictly another screwing of the NRs on their side of the draw. The big thing I'm trying to get across is that if he does that it should mean that he's now aligning himself with the WYPGA, which we all know he detests. You can't have it one way and say that the NRs were aligned with WYOGA on the 90/10 split and then turn right around and fight for the same thing they are on this next Bill and say you're not! The one thing I've always agreed with BuzzH is that there should be no PPs system and everyone should be in a fair, impartial random draw for available tags. Some of the tough ones should then be made a OIL tag after a person draws them like sheep, goats, moose and Bison.

I didn't miss any point, and I could care less about your battle with Buzz.

NR used WYOGA as an ally to win their battle. Kyle was even calling for folks to donate to the their "hunter defense fund" on the Bowsite. A snake is a snake is a snake and I don't trust WYOGA (or any states outfitter/guide association) to look out for me as a NR OYO guy. Anyone that does is dancing with the devil.

I don't KNOW what WYOGAs motives are in introducing this bill, but I can guarantee you it doesn't serve you or me well in the long run. My guess is they will "sell" the idea to help balance the G&F budget, and then when they don't have enough folks applying for the special draw they will shift some of those tags to auction tags.