Trump is shot!

[BigHornRam]

Plenty of reasons for people to want Oswald dead. Way past half serious.

It's been long enough. Release the files. We can handle the truth.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

 

[VikingsGuy]

Obviously words matter, and that statement was clearly written to stir up fear and rage, but it has to be fair game to honestly discuss the threat another Trump presidency poses to American democracy. That is and has always been my greatest concern with Trump, not his economic policy or Covid policy or immigration policy. His disregard for democratic norms and the rule of law, especially with the effectively absolute immunity now granted by SCOTUS, and his very open intent to weaponize the justice system against political opponents all make me fear that my 6 month old daughter may never get to vote in a free and fair election. Lots of policy mistakes can be undone, but it’s hard to put the authoritarian cat back in the bag.

"effectively absolute immunity" is a completely inaccurate and inflammatory characterization of the SCOTUS ruling. Have you read it carefully? If you take the trump emotion out of it, it is a fairly reasonable approach to dealing with a presidency and completely consistent with the unwritten norms of the past 200+ years. How about dozens of murder charges against Obama for his dozens of drone strike kill orders? Ludicrous to think a president has to post hoc face a trial for official acts. As for radicalizing the justice department as a vehicle to grind political axes - it won't even be new, the current administration has already done that in spades.

As for your 6 month old. She will be fine. We will still have a democracy in all of its glory and sloppiness, and the oceans will not have boiled. Take a deep breath and walk away from the hyperbole of the last 10 years by both sides. You and your daughter will be happier for it.

 

[4ohSick]

I mean - save for jan 6th (which inherently cant happen again) what was broken or wrong for american democracy?

Can’t happen again because of the assumption he’ll win? Or because security will be beefed up? Some 30% of the country doesn’t believe the election of Biden was legitimate, and that snowball is just gonna keep growing with each election, no matter which side wins.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Lot of kool-aid drankin round these parts.

 

[4ohSick]

"effectively absolute immunity" is a completely inaccurate and inflammatory characterization of the SCOTUS ruling. Have you read it carefully? If you take the trump emotion out of it, it is a fairly reasonable approach to dealing with a presidency and completely consistent with the unwritten norms of the past 200+ years. How about dozens of murder charges against Obama for his dozens of drone strike kill orders? Ludicrous to think a president has to post hoc face a trial for official acts. As for radicalizing the justice department as a vehicle to grind political axes - it won't even be new, the current administration has already done that in spades.

As for your 6 month old. She will be fine. We will still have a democracy in all of its glory and sloppiness, and the oceans will not have boiled. Take a deep breath and walk away from the hyperbole of the last 10 years by both sides. You and your daughter will be happier for it.

I’ll bow out after this cuz we’re getting off-topic. The blanket of potentially “official” acts is so broad and the inability to use anything said or done during “official” acts as evidence for a crime during “unofficial” acts that prosecution of anything during the presidency is effectively impossible. Even if the language doesn’t explicitly say it, it’s just not practically possible. I’m not a lawyer, but all the lawyers’ synopses I’ve read agree with that, although maybe their inherent biases are different than yours. Either way, I think Trump’s presence in the political discourse has turned America into a nastier place, and it remains to be seen whether any other person can be as effective at turning Americans against each other, but we’ll see with JD’s tryout.

Back on topic, I am absolutely astounded at the massive security failure, I grieve for the family of the man killed and those injured, and I thank God that the bullets were a few inches off target. The only thing worse for the polarization of our country than a failed assassination attempt would have been a successful one.

 

[Redmt]

645 posts and nobody has been banned and the thread isn't locked! What's the record?.

 

[406dn]

I mean - save for jan 6th (which inherently cant happen again) what was broken or wrong for american democracy?

How about the fake elector thing that Pence balked at?

 

[4ohSick]

I’m not a lawyer, but all the lawyers’ synopses I’ve read agree with that, although maybe their inherent biases are different than yours.

Sorry @VikingsGuy, this sounded way more dick-ish than I intended. I appreciate your insight and your takes, even when they’re telling me to back off the sky-is-falling ledge.

 

[Wildabeest]

Why did they hold off on security for RDK Jr until today?

IMO, anyone not already entitled to USSS protection due to their current or previous public service should not get such free protection while campaigning. These grifters raise billions of dollars for these campaigns - the campaigns should pay for their security, not the American taxpayer.

 

[Elky Welky]

The only thing worse for the polarization of our country than a failed assassination attempt would have been a successful one.

Agreed. The only way to defend democracy is through democracy.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Can’t happen again because of the assumption he’ll win? Or because security will be beefed up? Some 30% of the country doesn’t believe the election of Biden was legitimate, and that snowball is just gonna keep growing with each election, no matter which side wins.

Cant happen again because he cant be in office trying to retain it again (2 terms).

I mean - not really. The far right has some wild election theories but if everyone had to show identification to vote, they would have little to no argument.

IMO, anyone not already entitled to USSS protection due to their current or previous public service should not get such free protection while campaigning. These grifters raise billions of dollars for these campaigns - the campaigns should pay for their security, not
the American taxpayer.

Disagree - protecting people this high of level requires coordination and connections with other depts such as the FBI for threat investigation, resources, research, etc

How about the fake elector thing that Pence balked at?

Cant happen - he cant run a 3rd term.

 

[Redmt]

I’ll bet you a beer of your choice that if he wins and they take both houses of congress, there will be an effort to repeal the 22nd for Trump 2028.

Trump gonna do what Trump wanna do. He already said it's going to be a dictatorship until things get squared away. Whenever that is,,,,

 

[Bonasababy]

He is owed zero time of only good things. Attack his tax policy, his stance on abortion, his criminal convictions, his covid policy, etc. What we are talking about here - and what Biden damn well knew on Saturday (or at least his advisors knew) was that this "greatest threat to American democracy since Hitler" vibe is toxic and can only lead to bad places. Haven't voted for Trump yet and unlikely to start now, but he is no more Hitler than Biden is Stalin. Stick to actual policies is all I ask, leave the historical hyperbole out for at least a week after you (Biden) say it is important to do so.

Hitler comparisons to Trump are ill advised, whether made by Biden or Vance (yes he did too).

But it is an election season, a huge number of Americans are scared to death of what Trump may do and what he has personally said he will do.

Threat is legitimate and verifiable for many. This isn't red vs blue politics gone sour, large numbers of red folks are scared of him and worried for our future too.

 

[mtmuley]

I’ll bet you a beer of your choice that if he wins and they take both houses of congress, there will be an effort to repeal the 22nd for Trump 2028.

Forky ain't old enough to drink. mtmuley

 

[406dn]

Cant happen again because he cant be in office trying to retain it again (2 terms).

I mean - not really. The far right has some wild election theories but if everyone had to show identification to vote, they would have little to no argument.

Disagree - protecting people this high of level requires coordination and connections with other depts such as the FBI for threat investigation, resources, research, etc


Cant happen - he cant run a 3rd term.

Sure it can, he can engineer it for the GOP candidate, who succeeds him. J.D. Vance would be the VP in charge of counting the elector's votes. He might even be the GOP candidate needing alternate electors.

 

[ignorethefringes]

I’ll bet you a beer of your choice that if he wins and they take both houses of congress, there will be an effort to repeal the 22nd for Trump 2028.

If I drank I’d take that bet without hesitation. But I’d add the qualifier that the effort would have to actual have reasonable support. There’s always an idiot willing to make an effort without realizing he’s the only idiot, or one of very few idiots.

Edited to add, one of the biggest media failures of the last decade or so is convincing the general public that the fringes on both sides of the aisle, represent the bulk of both sides of the aisle. Both sides have fallen for it and it’s been detrimental.

 

[Archer86]

I’ll bet you a beer of your choice that if he wins and they take both houses of congress, there will be an effort to repeal the 22nd for Trump 2028.

Trump phobia is strong with this one....

 

[Forkyfinder]

I’ll bet you a beer of your choice that if he wins and they take both houses of congress, there will be an effort to repeal the 22nd for Trump 2028.

Trump gonna do what Trump wanna do. He already said it's going to be a dictatorship until things get squared away. Whenever that is,,,,

You guys... please. This is literally the kind of feedback loop echo chamber nomsense that enables sick people to escalate things.

 

[406dn]

He is owed zero time of only good things. Attack his tax policy, his stance on abortion, his criminal convictions, his covid policy, etc. What we are talking about here - and what Biden damn well knew on Saturday (or at least his advisors knew) was that this "greatest threat to American democracy since Hitler" vibe is toxic and can only lead to bad places. Haven't voted for Trump yet and unlikely to start now, but he is no more Hitler than Biden is Stalin. Stick to actual policies is all I ask, leave the historical hyperbole out for at least a week after you (Biden) say it is important to do so.

So, we can't just repeat J. D. Vance's thoughts about Tump possibly being America's Hitler? This just illustrates how phucked up we are right now. A smart man had one thought about Trump, but upon sniffing power, reverses course and becomes the VP candidate for the man he once reviled.