Trump is shot!

[3855WIN]

One of the snipers inside saw Thomas Matthew Crooks outside and looking up at the roof, observing the building and disappearing, a local law enforcement officer tells CBS News.

Crooks came back, sat down and looked at his phone. At that point, one of the snipers took a picture of him. Crooks took out a rangefinder and the sniper radioed to the command post. Crooks disappeared again and then came back a third time with a backpack. The snipers called in with information that he had a backpack and said he was walking towards the back of the building.

Officers believe that Crooks might have used an air conditioning unit to get on top of the roof.

By the time other officers came for backup, he had climbed on top of the building and was positioned above and behind the snipers inside the building, the officer said.

Two other officers who heard the sniper's call tried to get onto the roof. State police started rushing to the scene, but by that time, a Secret Service sniper had already killed Crooks, the officer said.

–CBS News' Anna Schecter

 

[VikingsGuy]

OK . . . I have said many times before I am a Never-Trumper (and unlike JDV that isn't going to change) - but if I say I want to live in a democracy, that means other folks get to vote for who they like even if I don't. Otherwise democracy is a sham. There are elections in Russia and other dictatorships. The elections themselves are free and fair in theory, but choosing who is on the ballot in the first place is not. That is not democracy.

Democracy is more than having comfortable elections amongst allowed candidates. And we have a constitution and institutions that guard against a poor democratic outcome once in a while.

I would rather have a free democracy that once in a while has to deal with a over-reaching executive, than a system where a few dozen elite tell us who is an acceptable candidate and then use their power prevent any other unapproved person from being on the ballot. I trust our system to overcome a one-time idiot -- but I don't trust a few hundred super elite to "manage" our democracy to their liking over decades.

Too many on the left and the right don't trust democracy and would be more comfortable with their approved leaders being anointed without the "warping effect of democracy" or a marketplace of ideas. They believe they are all knowing and benevolent, and are in a better position to decide what others need than the others themselves. This is the height of arrogance and the easy path to tyranny.

I for one am willing to take the chance to have a fairly open form of democracy over a currated elite performative democracy. I don't trust Trump. I don't trust Sanders. But who am I to decide that for 300 million other Americans.

Democracy is hard - free speech is hard - liberty is hard . . . . I choose them nonetheless.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

 

[manitou1]

Am I the only one that watches that video and thinks that particular sniper never fired a shot? Looks to me more like he's lifting his head and adjusting rifle positioning for target acquisition. If he fired "when the rifle jerked" or whatever the article says, he snapped off a round in a hurry. Audio would also support he didn't fire.

Kind of supports the other comments that this particular sniper teams line of sight was blocked or something and the other SS sniper team actually fired

I initially had the same thoughts as many others...how did the shooter ever got off a shot if he was on roof for multiple minutes?

But then, even if they know there's a threat out there via radio comms, they likely also knew local LEO were working on it...how do you know the guy you can partially see on a roof isn't local LEO? Clothing and description I guess?

Once he starts shooting at the rally you know for sure.

Either way, still shocked this guy was able to get access to that roof so close to the venue and get off rounds the way he did...I truly didn't think that'd be possible in today's day and age of security...apparently SS thought the same.

My thoughts too.

They had ONE threat location of high ground and only 140 yards away... well within rifle range of any marginally proficient shooter and nobody had this covered?!!!

 

[VikingsGuy]

Like @WildWill said how would we know of it was the truth anyhow. The fact that they won't release it is telling enough to know that conspiracy theories aren't really that far fetched sometimes. Imo

I am not so sure, some times history is boring, and sometimes bureaucracies grind on about little for their own reasons.

 

[Nick87]

Thank you.

 

[Elky Welky]

on the positive, maybe we will finally get to own Greenland. I wonder if they will allow NR and have preference points, bonus points, or just straight random draws?

They have musk ox in Greenland, right?

 

[NR_Hunter]

On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century|Paperback

#1 NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER • A “bracing” (Vox) guide for surviving and resisting America’s turn towards authoritarianism, from “a rising public intellectual unafraid to make bold connections between past and...

www.barnesandnoble.com

I can’t recommend this barely-a-book enough.

 

[manitou1]

Can’t happen again because of the assumption he’ll win? Or because security will be beefed up? Some 30% of the country doesn’t believe the election of Biden was legitimate, and that snowball is just gonna keep growing with each election, no matter which side wins.

Only 30%?
Boy, lots of gullable people in this country.

 

[VikingsGuy]

On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century|Paperback

#1 NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER • A “bracing” (Vox) guide for surviving and resisting America’s turn towards authoritarianism, from “a rising public intellectual unafraid to make bold connections between past and...

www.barnesandnoble.com

I can’t recommend this barely-a-book enough.

Can you also recommend one that tackles the issue from the other side of the aisle so folks can read both and make up their own minds?

 

[NR_Hunter]

Can you also recommend one that tackles the issue from the other side of the aisle so folks can read both and make up their own minds?

It’s a book about history. The other side of the isle from that would be fiction.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I was on a hunt with @Mica Man a few years ago in an area with a nearby fire. As we headed in, we heard that it was likely that a forest service crew was going to wrap the bridge that was between our camping spot and our vehicles. They did it one day while we were hunting. We knew they had been in there as we glassed them heading towards the trailhead. On our way back to camp, Mica Man was talking about breaking through the foil wrap like Kool-Aid Man breaking through a wall.* We were all disappointed when we saw what the “wrap” actually consisted of (my brother in the photo).


*Mica Man might have actually said that he wanted to bust through the wrap like a football player breaking through a banner as he ran onto the field but everyone in our party knew that he actually wanted to recreate a Kool-Aid Man scene.

 

[Dubz337]

645 posts and nobody has been banned and the thread isn't locked! What's the record?.

Don’t worry, I was just busy for a few hours

 

[Wind Gypsy]

 

[VikingsGuy]

It’s a book about history. The other side of the isle from that would be fiction.

Come on, you can do better than this. Are you saying history writers are neutral in their perspective? Of course they are not. Is the 1619 Proect neutral in its perspective? Were the standard US history text books of the late 1950s neutral? Are the Japanese school text books neutral on WW2?

All writers bring bias with them. And that is only human. But to pretend otherwise is just silly.

We don’t move a discussion forward by claiming those that we agree with speak fully the truth and those we disagree with write “fiction”. That is the type of take that explains the mess we are in, not how we move forward from it.

As for book recommendations- Ezra Klein’s (an absolutely self identified Progressive who claims this perspective clearly in his writing, to his credit) book Why we are Polarized is one of the best books on the topic to date. While I disagree with many of his “solutions” in the final chapter or two, his assessment of underlying tensions is really well done.

 

[Redmt]

You guys... please. This is literally the kind of feedback loop echo chamber nomsense that enables sick people to escalate things.

Are you speaking from experience? Asking for a friend.

 

[Mica Man]

I was on a hunt with @Mica Man a few years ago in an area with a nearby fire. As we headed in, we heard that it was likely that a forest service crew was going to wrap the bridge that was between our camping spot and our vehicles. They did it one day while we were hunting. We knew they had been in there as we glassed them heading towards the trailhead. On our way back to camp, Mica Man was talking about breaking through the foil wrap like Kool-Aid Man breaking through a wall.* We were all disappointed when we saw what the “wrap” actually consisted of (my brother in the photo).

View attachment 332948
*Mica Man might have actually said that he wanted to bust through the wrap like a football player breaking through a banner as he ran onto the field but everyone in our party knew that he actually wanted to recreate a Kool-Aid Man scene.

I was hot and thirsty after hiking around in that country behind your brother looking for sheep...not to mention the fun of recreating that scene I viewed so many times in my youth.

 

[NDGuy]

Wow

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813038314674659651

Nothing like unions supporting people that publicly state they want to get rid of unions

#leopardsatemyface

 

[NR_Hunter]

Come on, you can do better than this. Are you saying history writers are neutral in their perspective? Of course they are not. Is the 1619 Proect neutral in its perspective? Were the standard US history text books of the late 1950s neutral? Are the Japanese school text books neutral on WW2?

All writers bring bias with them. And that is only human. But to pretend otherwise is just silly.

We don’t move a discussion forward by claiming those that we agree with speak fully the truth and those we disagree with write “fiction”. That is the type of take that explains the mess we are in, not how we move forward from it.

As for book recommendations- Ezra Klein’s (an absolutely self identified Progressive who claims this perspective clearly in his writing, to his credit) book Why we are Polarized is one of the best books on the topic to date. While I disagree with many of his “solutions” in the final chapter or two, his assessment of underlying tensions is really well done.

Snyder leans left for sure, but he’s far less into partisan politics than Ezra Klien. He’s a history professor at Yale and doesn’t stray out of that lane like many of the modern day gurus do. On Tyranny is pretty straight forward history and covers both communist and fascist takeovers all over the world.

Maybe you could give it a read and PM me your thoughts. I read the whole thing sleeping in the back on my truck on a deer hunting trip in Wyoming. It’s a fairly easy read.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Are you speaking from experience? Asking for a friend.

No. Im not a liberal nutjob.

Is this you?