So what happened to the "let's bash landowners thread"?

[BuzzH]

sreekers,

Down here near Laramie, I say its way better, largely because its mostly National Forest and they dont hunt elk for 11-15 weeks a year. The elk stay on public and are more accessible VS Montana where elk are hunted a minimum of 11 weeks and now up to 15-16+ weeks in MT.

I heard through the grape-vine they're now going to have cow elk rifle hunts in the bighole valley in Montana in AUGUST....and run an either sex season through the end of November.

I wonder if those elk will be on the ranches that dont allow hunting?

There are some areas though, where the same thing is happening in Wyoming. I was shed hunting with Oak a year or so ago and a game warden stopped to talk to us. He was saying that the area I killed my bull in last year had "too many elk" and that they needed to issue more permits. I told him that issuing more permits wasnt the solution, but that the elk were getting pushed onto private within a few days of the rifle season. I recommended they DECREASE the number of hunters and offer each hunter 2 cow/calf tags. That likely would decrease hunter numbers and could keep huntable elk on public land longer.

The trouble with the G&F biologists is that they are about as creative as a rock when it comes to reducing population numbers. They just throw more permits out there and get more hunters in the field. That isnt always the answer and in many cases, probably has the opposite effect of what they want.

But, again, my comments went in one ear and out the next...I just dont think there was much gray matter to slow it down in this guys case.

Its very frustrating at times to even offer up suggestions as I believe many biologists have cratered to the legislature and commission and are just hanging in there until retirement. Also, hunters are a complacent bunch as well. You're lucky to get even a small fraction of 1 percent of the hunters in WY to go to a meeting. On top of that, the few that go like to bitch and moan, but rarely offer up any kind of solution.

It would be nice, just once, to see 10% of the hunters show up at a meeting and start demanding some answers and offering up solutions. The legislature and commission needs to be made aware that hunters have political clout as well...and we would have if more people got involved.

But, not likely to happen as most are only intersted in "gettin' their elk".

 

[sreekers]

Up here there are A LOT of outfitters. Most of the Antelope that I saw taken this season on Outdoor/Sportsman channel were with 100 miles of here. It is very hard to gain access to any private land.

The elk in unit 129 tend to be a very mobile herd, and it is a gamble where they will be from day to day. Very hard herd to hunt, and even harder to obtain access to the land.

The elk in the bighorns tend to move off of the public land very quickly as well. There is a large chunk of that area that tends to get pressured very hard, and like you said their answer for over population is more tags. However they have qualified many of the tags as private land only, Cow/Calf or Doe/Fawn.

There is great hunting there if you draw one of the limited entry tags, or even better the limited entry Archery only tags.

I tend to do most of my hunting a lot further west in the state. I know the area better, and the public land is far more abundant, and I don't have to watch my every step on the GPS to make sure I haven't crossed over into Private.

 

[The Hedgehog]

My opinions are fairly aligned with Big Fin and Buzz. But it might just be that their writing is easier to comprehend than others. The elk managment in the Madison is certainly a circus. Montana is a little tough on mule deer bucks also, but don't think for a second that there isn't quality hunting.

Wannabuya200, we might agree across the board - but I doubt it. I figured you for a fag when you typed that we could "better ourselves" by working a lease with private landowners to show them what real sportsmen were like. Maybe you meant something that was different than what you typed.

Take this paragraph for example... I don't have clue one what you're getting at and therefore can't even respond.

Lets see....about limiting the tags....just a different way of doing what they are trying to acheive now with an added experience. Funny thing is I only know of TWO bucks taken in this area in 10 years that werent taken from a road. Hmmmm, theres some quality youth hunting there, would hate to limit that. And here is a REALLY good tip....if you dont like hunting there, dont apply.

Also, you go on a rant about "An EASY B&C mule deer in Mt" in response to my assumption that you might be looking for "an easier hunt for a big B&C number." There's a difference..

One question I have for you though -- what's a "Quality Hunt." It sounds like you don't think Montana has many.

Having been seriously hunting big game in Montana annually since 1981.. I beg to differ. We are spoiled rotten! Could some things be tweaked and adjusted in some places.. you bet. Maybe a few more limited quota hunting districts, maybe clipping a couple weeks of season off for bucks in a couple places too -- but don't get too carried away with it. If a guy wants to work hard there's record book animals on public land, both mule deer and elk.. even in the Madison Range.

Here's a buck taken this fall by the gal on the left. Had I spent time on my roof (I live in town) I probably could have spotted him a time or two.

 

[The Hedgehog]

and most importantly, I know my Chit.

Maybe you'll realize that I'm just having a little fun when I say your a fag. But with comments like that above, you make it too easy..

 

[Stillookinfor200]

He he, you amuse me kid. Lemme go grab a little longer stick to stir this nest a bit more, its just so awful productive. Glad you see where Im coming from, its always nice to know my opinion is appreciated.....guess I didnt say I DIDNT want to lease either, hmmmmm....or dont, maybe Im homeless, maybe Im filthy rich, maybe Im gay, maybe Im straight. Not sure why you cant seem to see tough guy, there are other people in this state that may have a DIFFERENT opinion than you on how we want our $ spent.... Oh the humanity...an opinion other than Greenhorns,

Im gonna be here for a while bugging you sunshine, get used to it.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Kid? Sunshine? Tough guy? Different opinions are fine. So is being gay.. if that's what you're into.

 

[Stillookinfor200]

I DO find it interesting but expected that you decided to show back up and throw a little tantrum that the attention had been diverted away from you, and some constructive and educated opinions were actually being discussed...Glad to have you back in the spotight sweetie. I cant speak for everyone else, but I SURE MISSED YOU.

 

[The Hedgehog]

A tantrum?

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'm 40. Does that qualify as a kid?

Just curious as to what you meant in your above quote.

Also, what's your definition of a "quality hunt."

 

[schmalts]

Those are some big RACKS

 

[Stillookinfor200]

Ehhhem, Im going to make an attempt to address a few "points" you have made....I didnt mean to imply that we could "better ourselves" by leasing, I may have worded it that way mistakenly, but I dont think so....My point was that MOST (not all) people that gripe about leasing cant afford it, lets see...we can bash the landowners like many folks do until joe hunter can hunt there, or we can work a little harder and buy (or lease) some land, if you choose to buy, Im sure you would let everyone hunt on YOUR 10,000 acres, you dont have to answer, as I dont believe you will truthfully anyway. Someone had mentioned THE LANDOWNERS were taking the "easy" way out, maybe we're taking the easy way out, maybe we're the lazy ones for insisting they share what THEY have a little more instead of getting our own, classic example of folks watching out only for their own interests.

Thanks for not responding to the "quote" you didnt understand. I appreciate that. I made an unsuccessful attempt to address a couple different comments that were being made, (not just by you) It appeared to me someone was a bit disgruntled that my proposal of limiting the tags (and/or antler restrictions) and hunting the last two weeks (in this particular area) instead of leaving it unlimited and bumping the last two weeks for muleys would only further limit the chance to pass on a "quality hunting experience" to our kids. Less tags...less opportunity, less kids hunting...end of past time. I MAY be mistaken, but thats how I understood what was being said.


My POINT...sorry, opinion, I have one again, was that for the number of bucks that are actually taken in this area (not a whole heckuva lot) even fewer that I know of are killed, in the back country, or even on a good day hike with Junior, they are killed from the freakin' road just as they are "arriving" at the lower elevations, usually the first few weeks of the season, and before many seasonal road closures have been made. One of my daughters for certain, would rather pass on dozens of smaller, young bucks, not have to contend with "road" hunters, have a LITTLE BETTER (Not EZ, would still like to see that in this area) chance at what she considers a quality animal, and most likely eat her A tag again than jump in the truck with me, drive beyond the gate before it closes and pop a stinky little 3 yr old JUST because it has antlers....whew, yah, again, thats quality youth hunting.

Now...what do I consider a "quality" hunt? Ughhhh, and to think I was called gay before this, I know Im not makin any friends with this one....FIRST let me say, just because this is what I enjoy doing, I am not asking that the Mule deer season in the entire state be managed just for me, Im just saying there is very few areas that offer these things, I think there could be a few more here and still be plenty of districts for other sportsmen to enjoy what they consider a quality hunt.

But for ME, an area that is managed for a good mule deer buck to do ratio, and more importanty (to me me me) age. Yes folks, letting a few more mule deer bucks grow up and see what happens with the bone they grow. There is probably a million and one management combinations that would help to acheive this, just depends on the area and what we originally have to work with. Im not too particular where it is, terrain I have no preference, nor vehicle access (Yikes, I know thats gonna tick some people off) but you asked about ME, a native Montanan who was passing on superb mule deer before you even figured out how to get your Red Rider loaded without shooting your eye out.

I know there is a couple areas already catering to good mule deer, and lets just say I am VERY aware that even some areas that dont, (mostly public land, with no special restrictions on mule deer) produce some MONSTER bucks....that, I know. Bear with me, and try to understand I am only hoping for a little more management for quality animals here (and maybe there) Everyones standards are different, thats obvious, can I shoot mature buck every year?, quite easily... 43 to be exact for this year. (OK OK, couple of the archery ones were no gimmees, but within 30 yds, and offering an extended good angle) But Im lookin for something a bit different, bumping up the challenge a bit. I very well may represent too small of a group to get enough people wanting the same thing, If I am, so be it, I dont blame you, thats what America is all about, but its also about stating my opinion...which I just did.

 

[Stillookinfor200]

Ohhhhh, and since we're visiting so nicely. What is YOUR opinion on a quality (lets say mule deer) hunt in Mt? Im curious that way.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks for noting your confidence in me not replying honestly. So since my reply is expected to be BS anyway - let me say it’s very much influenced by Crown and Egg Nog tonight.

I would certainly allow hunting on my property – but not to everybody. I wouldn’t expect any landowner to just open the floodgates.

As for your daughter passing on young deer, in hopes to find an older buck – that’s great. I hope my children have the same interest.

I could draft out the perfect mule deer hunting place (for me) in great detail and it wouldn’t allow for most Montana residents to enjoy it - but not because they were not allowed. To be brief, it would be a scenic public land area I could scout and hunt annually, get to know well, escape the crowds, and find deer to hunt, some of which would be dying of old age due to the remoteness, not to paddle locks on gates. Hey wait a minute, I hunted there this year and know of many of places like this in Montana..

 

[Stillookinfor200]

Exactly!!!! You hit the nail on the head. There ARE many places like this (where YOU like to hunt, and with Muleys YOU enjoy harvesting) in Montana, good for you and your liking, now....now what about what I like? Call me selfish, but Im just being honest, watchin' out for myself, we all do it.

In all, most of us know.....well maybe not, but I would hope most anyone who spends alot of time in the field throughout the state will accknowledge Quality Mule deer hunting is getting the shaft in alot more areas than it should. I still think we could use a few more quality zones, try some creative management, see what happens. Theres plenty of state out there, and Ive seen it all, I just dont think a few more restrictions on mule deer in a couple selected areas is gonna put much of a damper on what you and heck of alot of other sportsmen like to do. Sounds like you already have the areas you want to hunt, dont worry so much about the leases, dont worry so much about a district here and there having a little stricter regs on Muleys. Sounds like you're set.

As far as your kids....I know you dont need me saying this, but I will anyway as Im known for it, just get them introduced, show them the ropes, spend some time with them, dont preach to them big or small, show them all the aspects and let them decide. I mentioned before some of the best "trophies" I have ever seen taken dont have alot (if any) bone on top their heads. One of my daughters chooses to be incredibly selective because she likes the challenge, not because I wanted her to be picky. She has always known and continues to know now, when we hunt together, she never should ask me...."Should I take him?" Thats for her to decide, it was when she was 12 and now as a grown woman. If she is happy with the animal, she will make the kill, and I too, will be happy with it. The other chooses to put tastey meat in the freezer, they were both "taught" exactly the same by me. Its their choice now and it has always been.

You dont need to hope that your kids have an interest in passing on small bucks, or however you put it, if we are all lucky, they will just love to hunt, and have the places and the recources to do that. How big of an animal they wait for (or not) is up to them, and you and I when hunting for ourselves.

DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS, OPINIONS, INTERESTS AND GOALS. Thats all Im sayin....different, you and I arent bad, just different.

I prefer a little Jack on the rocks when the occasion arrises, savin a good bottle of Pendleton for one of these seasons.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I didnt mean to imply that we could "better ourselves" by leasing, I may have worded it that way mistakenly, but I dont think so....

My point was that MOST (not all) people that gripe about leasing cant afford it, lets see...we can bash the landowners like many folks do until joe hunter can hunt there, or we can work a little harder and buy (or lease) some land, ........

Someone had mentioned THE LANDOWNERS were taking the "easy" way out, maybe we're taking the easy way out, maybe we're the lazy ones for insisting they share what THEY have a little more instead of getting our own, classic example of folks watching out only for their own interests.

.

What a flippin' bunch of nonsense!!! Let me get this striaght, people should "work harder" and make more money so they can afford to buy (or lease) their own lands in Montana to hunt publically owned wildlife? What a crock of shit!!!

Yeah, let's make hunting even MORE of a rich man's sport. Let's make sure that those who choose to become school teachers, Pastors, environmental advocates, social workers, etc..... can't be part of the hunting community because they are "lazy ones" and can't afford to lease land.

Un-friggin' believable how stupid and arrogant some people are.

 

[Stillookinfor200]

Its a cruel World, so keep doing what you can to change it to your liking, as will I.

No nonsense at all...thats the way America (at least sometimes) works....work harder, get rewarded, hmmmm, interesting concept. Thats the way I was brought up, on 80 hr weeks, still have my share of them, its worked.

Im gonna go out on a limb and say most of the folks on these sights whining and crying about PUBLIC game, and PRIVATE land and LEASES would be singing a different tune if they had a hundred thousand acres or so of prime game habitat and STILL had the same passion for hunting they have now. Thats it, just open the place to the public so we can hunt OUR game, hopefully we'll remember to take care of your land and not shoot your livestock, hopefully we will find some way to try to compensate you a little bit for feeding the critters we like to murder a few months out of the year.

I see where kids are coming from about the "publicly" owned wildlife to a certain extent, its just the words Privately Owned Land have a little more pull to say the least.

This is how I feel about most of the folks bashing landowners and leases on these sights.....not all, but most.

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
— hypocrite adjective

You can all claim I speak untruths about such a labeling, dear God, calling fellow "sportsmen" Hypocrites.....but I dont think many of you can sit there, imagine owning a large tract of YOUR favorite terrain, with a superb and healthy population of the game YOU like to kill, and still say, come one, come all, this is YOUR game too, come to my land and kill it....

Get real folks....like I said, what a cruel World.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It would be really disappointing for me to see regs/seasons change in some areas where naive hunters fantasize about easier chances at bigger bucks. The places I'm referring to have low pressure, public land, and deer die of old age.. consequently the antlers won't grow much bigger with a change in management. There's certainly bucks with 200+ inches of antler on their heads in places of Montana where I've hunted, but they aren't a gimme, are difficult to hunt, and most can usually make it through the season - even the perceived 11 week onslaught of Montana hunters.

I disagree with the thoughts on leasing being anything positive for hunting in Montana. I'm no hypocrite. And I don't need any tips on how to raise my kids or introduce them to hunting. Of course you're entitled to your opinions on that, as well as other things..

 

[The Hedgehog]

I see where kids are coming from about the "publicly" owned wildlife to a certain extent, its just the words Privately Owned Land have a little more pull to say the least.

Kids?

 

[Stillookinfor200]

Been there, done that, still do actually, most of the places I hunt for muleys make the background in your pic look like the the back nine at the country club, I still get around pretty good to say te least. Yes, low pressure, public land, deer with alzeimers....great, now youre tellin me that a change in management in some areas wont grow bigger deer? Hogwash, lets just keep whackin the little guys cause its fun to kill something. If Mt is doing so good in the quality mule deer management department, where are the #s?, Although I dont and never will enter animals, almost everyone of the B&C mule deer I have seen killed in Mt IS entered......So you are telling me that a change in management in a few areas wont make a difference? So if 270 was managed lets say....like 621 for example, it would still have the same mature bucks???? Sheeeshhhhh, you are happy with hunting and killing the size of animals you do, I am OK with hunting now, but I want it BETTER FOR ME, you can still hunt your areas and shoot the game you do, so whats the problem now? Guess no problem, as long as you're happy.

Gonna hit the hills....good day.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Hey learn to read. I never said a "change in management in some areas wont grow bigger deer."

Area 270 offers a quality hunt now?

By the way.. I'm happy killing the size of animals I do.. if I weren't happy with them I wouldn't kill them. Why wouldn't I be happy killing deer that are at or past their prime, have great antlers to decorate my house with, and a huge pile of yummy meat in my freezer for me and my family.