Red flag warnings

[ignorethefringes]

For sure. Maybe he doesn’t watch the news?? I can’t make excuses for him. Just pointing out that while a lot of us and the country might take that as a threat, it is a normal everyday occurrence in a lot of parts of this country. When I was in the Rawlins Walmart not to long ago I saw a bunch of people carrying. No one freaked out and drew down on them. Is it because he had an AR? Or did he do/ say something threatening? That article doesn’t say.

He was dressed in tactical gear, carrying a visible, loaded weapon(s) with plenty of ammo on him (I'm guessing strapped to his belt in mags or something), recording himself walking around Walmart. And yes, a dude walking around with an AR strapped to his shoulders is a little more intimidating than open carrying a pistol. He's a kid with a smartphone; he knows there was a shooting in a Walmart recently and, at minimum, pulled a stupid stunt. I echo that he's lucky no one shot him.

It does us no good to defend a fool like this. Maybe he's just a stupid kid, maybe he's a danger to society. He deserves to be held until the cops figure out which.

 

[Doublecluck]

What is really surprising to me is that the general attitude of most of the gunowners I know and come across here in CA have more of a “no compromise, not one more inch” type of attitude when it comes to the 2A. It’s just my observation that gunowners from pro 2A states are more willing to compromise on the issue of gun control. Of course I could be way wrong since I don’t know that many gun owners outside of CA. Just the few buddies I served with, and acquaintances I have met hunting out of state.

The most compelling argument for no more gun laws is the FACT that the ones already on the books are largely ineffective. All of these “ideas” have already been tried. Assault weapons bans, red flag laws, magazine capacity bans have already been tried and are in place in many states. The results of nearly all of them are not even measure-able. Connecticut had a red flag law in place when sandy hook took place. Gun owners all over this country have already “compromised”. These people don’t go away, as soon as they pass one stupid gun law there they are again with a new stupid gun law. And when those stupid gun laws don’t work, they will be right back to pass more.

It’s not compromise, it’s progress to the left. Starts in the big cities and moves to the rest of the country.

We don’t need gun reform, we need family reform. We need fathers raising their children, we need to teach every child from a young age to respect others, that they alone are responsible for their actions, and that there can be consequences for those actions. We need to teach these boys what it means to be a Man, and that it’s ok to be a Man.

 

[jake23]

He was dressed in tactical gear, carrying a visible, loaded weapon(s) with plenty of ammo on him (I'm guessing strapped to his belt in mags or something), recording himself walking around Walmart. And yes, a dude walking around with an AR strapped to his shoulders is a little more intimidating than open carrying a pistol. He's a kid with a smartphone; he knows there was a shooting in a Walmart recently and, at minimum, pulled a stupid stunt. I echo that he's lucky no one shot him.

It does us no good to defend a fool like this. Maybe he's just a stupid kid, maybe he's a danger to society. He deserves to be held until the cops figure out which.

I would probably bet he got the exact outcome he was looking for. All the fame and no jail time. Everyone knows who he is now! And yes, he is very lucky no-one shot him!

 

[Bluffgruff]

The due process part is a real concern. Especially with veterans & scenarios like Cush lays out. But I think you can get around that with some thought.

But new gun control laws without trying to understand and fix the Root problem of so much anger & hate in this country won't do what we want. People are despondent & feel unvalued. They feel alone & unsupported. We need to change that.

Hard to control those feelings in this type of society, however, we can make acquiring firearms difficult. Vetting processes for new purchases is something we should look into. It should be hard. It gives those people who know troubled individuals a chance to speak out before something happens #SolPais

 

[LWC55]

Hard to control those feelings in this type of society, however, we can make acquiring firearms difficult. Vetting processes for new purchases is something we should look into. It should be hard. It gives those people who know troubled individuals a chance to speak out before something happens #SolPais

Would that be like making drugs illegal makes acquiring drugs difficult?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Would that be like making drugs illegal makes acquiring drugs difficult?

When's the last time you tried to buy a K of Columbian Bam-Bam? It ain't like it's the 1980's anymore, Sonny Crockett.

Bluffgruff - appreciate the quote, but I'm letting Vikingsguy carry my water on this thread. Cheers!

 

[JohnCushman]

Hard to control those feelings in this type of society, however, we can make acquiring firearms difficult. Vetting processes for new purchases is something we should look into. It should be hard. It gives those people who know troubled individuals a chance to speak out before something happens #SolPais

How do we 'vet' the gangbangers buying a glock out of the back of homie's mustang? Once again, this only inconviences the law abiding citizens who want a gun. Yes, there have been legally purchased guns used by the buyer in a shooting, but how do you regulate the stolen guns or illegally acquired guns used in a crime? Evil intentions will come through no matter what vetting happens or how a gun is gotten...no law will stop evil intentions.

 

[LWC55]

When's the last time you tried to buy a K of Columbian Bam-Bam? It ain't like it's the 1980's anymore, Sonny Crockett.

Bluffgruff - appreciate the quote, but I'm letting Vikingsguy carry my water on this thread. Cheers!

Even though it fits your agenda, I know that you realize it isn't difficult to score illegal drugs in America. Any 16 year old (even the good ones) can have drugs within a few minutes if they want them. I wish it weren't the case but it is. Or do you feel we have won the "war on drugs"?

Guns aren't much more difficult. Especially for those that aren't worried about dying or going to prison.

 

[HSi-ESi]

2 things I would like to see the Feds start to push - and both deal with education.

1) Really push firearms education in school. Minnesota has a robust trap shooting program within their schools (mentioned on Hal Herring's latest BHA podcast). I would love to see some movement by the NRA back into pushing and promoting schools and the NSSF. We have mechanism's in place to varying degrees throughout the U.S. - but pushing funding and standardizing across communities would be a great effort that I think would help ease some of the situations.

I think back when I was a naive, Eastern MT small town kid going to a liberal arts school on the West Coast. I couldn't believe the lack of gun knowledge, safety and awareness of my peers. They could not believe my love of shooting and guns. It took many conversations, examples and introductions to start to "break" through on arguments. The gap has only widened in the last 20 years.

2) Improvement, standardization and Education of existing laws in place. Take a simple case of wanting to get a concealed carry permit. The hurdles vary from state to state - and some folks don't want to deal with that hassle. I know groups have been working on helping navigate that process - but think of how many other gun laws are in place. How many laws get broken on a school shooting? Did anyone that noticed precursor's that an 'active shooter' demonstrated know what to do? Who to contact?

A corollary would be the "Adult Onset Hunter". We are making a concerted effort helping people that are interested in hunting, but have never done it - navigate the hoops of becoming a hunter. Online classes, mentorship, etc. (3 R's).

I'm still on the fence for the Red Flag warnings. I think it has potential - but Federally mandated would be a tough road. I can see them tying $$ for the States to meet certain standards.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Hard to control those feelings in this type of society, however, we can make acquiring firearms difficult. Vetting processes for new purchases is something we should look into. It should be hard. It gives those people who know troubled individuals a chance to speak out before something happens #SolPais

I may have misunderstood your point, but why should getting a firearm be difficult for people that have no need jump through hoops?

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Even though it fits your agenda, I know that you realize it isn't difficult to score illegal drugs in America. Any 16 year old (even the good ones) can have drugs within a few minutes if they want them. I wish it weren't the case but it is. Or do you feel we have won the "war on drugs"?

Guns aren't much more difficult. Especially for those that aren't worried about dying or going to prison.

So, more laws are not going to help, enforce the ones that already exist. Laws are not stopping them, and won't.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

How do we 'vet' the gangbangers buying a glock out of the back of homie's mustang? Once again, this only inconviences the law abiding citizens who want a gun. Yes, there have been legally purchased guns used by the buyer in a shooting, but how do you regulate the stolen guns or illegally acquired guns used in a crime? Evil intentions will come through no matter what vetting happens or how a gun is gotten...no law will stop evil intentions.

Well put John...

I would add, it has to be stopped at the root cause which may mean better family interaction or paying better attention to the warning indicators. Given the fact that even if someone can't use a gun, they will find a way to do harm.

 

[Big Fin]

Guys, I took a few minutes to examine the remainder of this thread, fully expecting it would be derailed by now.

Nope. This is a very difficult topic with a high propensity to go off the rails. You guys have had a remarkably civil and interesting discussion. I can't thank you enough. Proof that adults can have a discussion on these topics.

Carry on. I've enjoyed reading these perspectives.

 

[mtmuley]

I think back when I was a naive, Eastern MT small town kid going to a liberal arts school on the West Coast. I couldn't believe the lack of gun knowledge, safety and awareness of my peers. They could not believe my love of shooting and guns. It took many conversations, examples and introductions to start to "break" through on arguments. The gap has only widened in the last 20 years.

I don't mean to imply the entire West coast is ignorant of gun knowledge, but a significant number are. East coast also probably. I take it for granted growing up in a gun "culture" I guess you could call it, knowing what guns are for and how to use them. For some, the only exposure to firearms is the media when things like last weekend happen. mtmuley