Losses at the Forest Service

[BuzzH]

Barely keeps up with inflation!

Barely?

 

[Hunting Wife]

420 is 5 percent of the workforce for the fish and wildlife service i would say it's some not uncommon for a private sector job to cut back that much.

It sucks but it's no where even remotely close to what you are trying to compare it to.

5 percent today, on top of 20-30% over the last decade.

Not that anyone cares, but here’s a real life scenario. Lots of fed land management offices are in a similar boat.

We have three people. No seasonal help. There used to be 6, plus seasonals, for less acres than we manage now. We now have about 300,000 acres, so roughly 100,000 acres apiece though that isn’t really how it works out due to experience levels, etc.
The things I personally do now:

Maintenance? That’s me. Plowing snow, fixing the roof, replacing the faucets, replacing light fixtures, changing the oil in the skid steer, installing solar pumps, fixing fence, putting up signs, mowing- I do that.

Admin officer? That’s me. Procurement, scopes of work for agreements, coordinating agreements with partners, safety inspections, fleet, billing for cooperators, paying our bills- I do that.

Management? That’s me. Develop and implement habitat management plans, weed control, oil and gas remediation plans, respond to spills, conservation easement compliance and enforcement, conservation easement acquisition, working with landowners, cooperative ag agreements, helping industry navigate the regulatory and permitting process, work with county road departments and utility companies on ROW and permits, work with partners to leverage larger scale projects - I do that.

Biologist? That’s me too. Water quality monitoring, waterfowl counts, habitat surveys, outdoor education programs- I do that.

This is not whining- in ordinary times I love my job. I chose this field because I grew up camping, fishing, and hiking on public lands and I want to work to ensure all Americans can enjoy the outdoors and wildlife that were so foundational to me, and selfishly I want to keep them around for myself too. But this is reality. And I already end up donating countless hours of my personal time because sometimes things just have to get done.

But I’m one person, and there’s a limit to how many people’s jobs I can do. I already can’t get all of the above done. But yeah, STFU and work harder. Got it.

And don’t even start with the “contract it out” line. First, contracting is the biggest source of government waste and fraud there is IMO. Second, when they take the positions, they take the money. That’s the whole point. There is no money in my budget for contracts. Things just flat aren’t going to get done anymore. Slinging insults, name-calling and berating me isn’t going to change that.

But they’re coming back around for RIFs next. Maybe this time it will be me. Not sure who will be left to protect sportsmen’s investment in the habitat and wildlife, but maybe it won’t be my problem anymore.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

While I agree with the last statement, the rest of it won't stand. That is not how people have conversations or arguments. It has been tried on many other forums, and it has not worked. But I suppose it does not hurt to try, but don't bet your 401k on it.

I trust you and honestly it just sounds like extra work for the mod team to have a “special” section.

 

[brymoore]

I remember Moosie’s idea of a subreddit.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I trust you and honestly it just sounds like extra work for the mod team to have a “special” section.

But when you put “special” in quotes, we talking about “special” like discussions, or is Randy resurrecting the noodie section?





Sorry. I’m tired and it’s getting heavy around here.

Edit: @brymoore beat me to it.

 

[shoots-straight]

So I've totally exhausted myself reading this thread. Much meandering going on.

So, my take is it's probably not going to have a huge effect on hunting in my area, but, depending on the Forest and the leadership, I'd guess their will be a pecking order of business to deal with.

In the past several years, I've called in illegal gates opened during hunting seasons. Off road driving and illegal camps.

One time (illegal camp) the FS went up and checked it out then responded to me on a report.

That was the Bitterroot Nf and I'd say they did a good job. On the Deer lodge-Beaverhead Nf, it was crickets for the most part after reporting behind gate use. I think that people that are going to break laws are going to be emboldened and care less what they do. There will be more damage and less accountability for it.

We'll see how far this goes, but maybe I'll be able to find a guy, or gal willing to work in construction again.

 

[BuzzH]

5 percent today, on top of 20-30% over the last decade.

Not that anyone cares, but here’s a real life scenario. Lots of fed land management offices are in a similar boat.

We have three people. No seasonal help. There used to be 6, plus seasonals, for less acres than we manage now. We now have about 300,000 acres, so roughly 100,000 acres apiece though that isn’t really how it works out due to experience levels, etc.
The things I personally do now:

Maintenance? That’s me. Plowing snow, fixing the roof, replacing the faucets, replacing light fixtures, changing the oil in the skid steer, installing solar pumps, fixing fence, putting up signs, mowing- I do that.

Admin officer? That’s me. Procurement, scopes of work for agreements, coordinating agreements with partners, safety inspections, fleet, billing for cooperators, paying our bills- I do that.

Management? That’s me. Develop and implement habitat management plans, weed control, oil and gas remediation plans, respond to spills, conservation easement compliance and enforcement, conservation easement acquisition, working with landowners, cooperative ag agreements, helping industry navigate the regulatory and permitting process, work with county road departments and utility companies on ROW and permits, work with partners to leverage larger scale projects - I do that.

Biologist? That’s me too. Water quality monitoring, waterfowl counts, habitat surveys, outdoor education programs- I do that.

This is not whining- in ordinary times I love my job. I chose this field because I grew up camping, fishing, and hiking on public lands and I want to work to ensure all Americans can enjoy the outdoors and wildlife that were so foundational to me, and selfishly I want to keep them around for myself too. But this is reality. And I already end up donating countless hours of my personal time because sometimes things just have to get done.

But I’m one person, and there’s a limit to how many people’s jobs I can do. I already can’t get all of the above done. But yeah, STFU and work harder. Got it.

And don’t even start with the “contract it out” line. First, contracting is the biggest source of government waste and fraud there is IMO. Second, when they take the positions, they take the money. That’s the whole point. There is no money in my budget for contracts. Things just flat aren’t going to get done anymore. Slinging insults, name-calling and berating me isn’t going to change that.

But they’re coming back around for RIFs next. Maybe this time it will be me. Not sure who will be left to protect sportsmen’s investment in the habitat and wildlife, but maybe it won’t be my problem anymore.

Pretty much the same for us, we're down about that in staff, more now that we've lost 2 this week. Not one time have we been fully staffed.

We have about 3500-4000 sites we have to visit a year. Our crews average about 60-80 a year, depending on where they work in the 8 states we cover. Some do more than that in the states with longer seasons, some less in the North.

Where we are with staffing today, its just not going to happen.

It takes employees to visit sites and collect data, period end of statement. We have no choice but to do less with less.

 

[Big Fin]

I remember Moosie’s idea of a subreddit.

But when you put “special” in quotes, we talking about “special” like discussions, or is Randy resurrecting the noodie section?





Sorry. I’m tired and it’s getting heavy around here.

Edit: @brymoore beat me to it.

Funny part is, when I bought this place from Moosie 16 years ago, I didn't even know about that segment of the forum. I kept getting PMs from people asking for the code to get into the other part of the forum.

Finally I called Oscar, "Hey, what's the other part of the forum that everyone wants a code to?"

Oscar, "You know, the Private Forum segment."

Me, "What Private Forum segment?"

Oscar, "What, you don't know about that?"

Me, "Don't know about what?"

Oscar, laughing so hard it took a few minutes for him to stop. "Oh, dang, I thought you knew."

Me, "Knew what?"

Oscar, "Just wait, I have to call you back. If my wife hears this she'll divorce me."

Needless to say, after Oscar called me back and I berated him for not telling me what was in his "Private Forum Segment," I placed an urgent call to my tech guys and before business the next day the other part of the forum vaporized, never to be seen again; never!

 

[ismith]

So, does this mean we will be getting a noods and politics subforum?

 

[Archer86]

5 percent today, on top of 20-30% over the last decade.

Not that anyone cares, but here’s a real life scenario. Lots of fed land management offices are in a similar boat.

We have three people. No seasonal help. There used to be 6, plus seasonals, for less acres than we manage now. We now have about 300,000 acres, so roughly 100,000 acres apiece though that isn’t really how it works out due to experience levels, etc.
The things I personally do now:

Maintenance? That’s me. Plowing snow, fixing the roof, replacing the faucets, replacing light fixtures, changing the oil in the skid steer, installing solar pumps, fixing fence, putting up signs, mowing- I do that.

Admin officer? That’s me. Procurement, scopes of work for agreements, coordinating agreements with partners, safety inspections, fleet, billing for cooperators, paying our bills- I do that.

Management? That’s me. Develop and implement habitat management plans, weed control, oil and gas remediation plans, respond to spills, conservation easement compliance and enforcement, conservation easement acquisition, working with landowners, cooperative ag agreements, helping industry navigate the regulatory and permitting process, work with county road departments and utility companies on ROW and permits, work with partners to leverage larger scale projects - I do that.

Biologist? That’s me too. Water quality monitoring, waterfowl counts, habitat surveys, outdoor education programs- I do that.

This is not whining- in ordinary times I love my job. I chose this field because I grew up camping, fishing, and hiking on public lands and I want to work to ensure all Americans can enjoy the outdoors and wildlife that were so foundational to me, and selfishly I want to keep them around for myself too. But this is reality. And I already end up donating countless hours of my personal time because sometimes things just have to get done.

But I’m one person, and there’s a limit to how many people’s jobs I can do. I already can’t get all of the above done. But yeah, STFU and work harder. Got it.

And don’t even start with the “contract it out” line. First, contracting is the biggest source of government waste and fraud there is IMO. Second, when they take the positions, they take the money. That’s the whole point. There is no money in my budget for contracts. Things just flat aren’t going to get done anymore. Slinging insults, name-calling and berating me isn’t going to change that.

But they’re coming back around for RIFs next. Maybe this time it will be me. Not sure who will be left to protect sportsmen’s investment in the habitat and wildlife, but maybe it won’t be my problem anymore.

All that still doesn't change the fact that the guy I was quoting was trying to compare these job cuts to the holocaust.......

You think losing your job or having to work a little harder is worse then what happened under Hitler? That all I was pointing out and some get so uptight they don't even read what they responding to.

 

[Sytes]

Curious, concessions, such as Colters Bay in GTNP, provide a contracted % of the profits to the NPS and we cut back the need to obligate tax $ to facilitate and route park entry $ towards more "essential" NPS projects.
Seems this would be advantageous to the FS for camp locations and comparable services.

Concessions (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[ismith]

All that still doesn't change the fact that the guy I was quoting was trying to compare these job cuts to the holocaust.......

You think losing your job or having to work a little harder is worse then what happened under Hitler? That all I was pointing out and some get so uptight they don't even read what they responding to.

I worked on a 150,000 acre, 6,500 pair cattle ranch. I was one of 5 ranch hands, counting the manager. 2 of the other ranch hands were exempt from the shit work. It was literally Hitler!

 

[INMT]

All that still doesn't change the fact that the guy I was quoting was trying to compare these job cuts to the holocaust.......

You think losing your job or having to work a little harder is worse then what happened under Hitler? That all I was pointing out and some get so uptight they don't even read what they responding to.

Look past the bill of your hat. @huntingwife wasn’t defending what he said.

Read what she was writing and don’t get so upset.

 

[Hunting Wife]

All that still doesn't change the fact that the guy I was quoting was trying to compare these job cuts to the holocaust.......

You think losing your job or having to work a little harder is worse then what happened under Hitler? That all I was pointing out and some get so uptight they don't even read what they responding to.

I’m not saying anything about the holocaust, just pointing out that 5% isn’t accurate.

Also, work a little harder? Did you read what I freaking wrote?

 

[Buffs35]

 

[sccritterkiller]

Could do a lot of trail work some of these amounts. Receipts are up on Doge for everyone to see.

 

[SilentBirdHunter]

Barely keeps up with inflation!

Meanwhile January inflation rose to 3.3% and the trajectory is high inflation with 25% tariffs on imported steel and aluminum. No way the Fed will lower interest rates with inflation above 3 percent and likely to go higher.

 

[westbranch]

Could do a lot of trail work some of these amounts. Receipts are up on Doge for everyone to see.
View attachment 361035

Have you been following this thread? Who will do the trail work?

 

[RemingtonRules]

Could do a lot of trail work some of these amounts. Receipts are up on Doge for everyone to see.
View attachment 361035

Keep Hammering

 

[Bonasababy]

No private business would be hiring anyone if it was running a $1.8 trillion deficit the year before. No one would be getting raises and those employed would be glad to have the job and probably worried that the company is going under and rightfully so.

That being said I don’t think local forest service and BLM offices are the direction they should be looking to make cuts. I can see both sides of the issue. Public lands are one of the greatest things we have in this country from my perspective.

Bad comparison IMO. No private business would say "we are taking in too much money, we need to tell people to give us less!"

Likewise, few private businesses would ever get started if they thought they had to completely pay for everything and rule out any loans, mortgages etc.