No one at the helm of America's national parks

[BuzzH]

Well just to be a nitpicker here. The NPS does not have over 20,000 employees. It was like 12k when I worked there. Which was a few years ago. So I could be wrong here.

Wrong, and another case of why there is never a reasonable discussion...pick fly chit out of pepper instead of looking at the big picture: Our national parks infrastructure is falling apart at the seams...but just so you get your "facts" straight:

Total workforce – that is, the sum of permanent, term, and temporary employees.

20,068

Number of permanent employees. These rangers, natural and cultural resource specialists, maintenance craft specialists, administrative staff, and other full-time workers account for almost 80% of the total workforce.

15,828

Number of temporary employees. A temporary employee has an appointment lasting one year or less, with a specified expiration date. Temporary workers are hired to meet agency needs that do not require permanent employees.

2984

 

[VikingsGuy]

This is another of those "AND" discussions. This is an important area of concern worthy of attention AND the messenger can make it worse by how they send the message. Mark and his screeds and the GI Joe cos-play idiots in Kentucky - both have worthwhile concerns, but do very little to bring others along constructively. BigFin can (and does) as he wishes - his house, his rules - but I for one agree it was time for Mark's approach to move along.

 

[WildWill]

I totally agree...and against my better judgement...

What I'm willing to do is look past SOME of the things that this administration has done. I'm more than willing to give credit where its due as well.

Problem is, there is a growing contingency that has invaded this site that take great pleasure in giving a pass to their side on the one hand, and giving no credit to the opposing side on the other.

I had a real and genuine interest when Trump made that donation of his check to the NPS, in particular the FIRST quarterly check he received. In my mind, I thought, "huh, I wonder if sometime in the past Trump actually went to a National Park and there was something significant/important enough to him, that he made the first donation to the NPS?" I found that fascinating, encouraging, and was hopeful that perhaps there was a side to the administration that cared about what I care about. A reason to be hopeful that, perhaps on one issue, there would be a common ground that most every American could agree on, the importance of OUR national parks. In my mind, I also thought there HAS to be a reason beyond just a publicity stunt, around the significance of the FIRST donation going to the NPS. Sad to say I was wrong.

That faded fast when the administration dragged their feet filling important roles in the public land management agencies...and it was soon apparent to me, this was all, in fact, nothing more than a publicity stunt. Instead of a first step in leadership, it just fizzled out and went nowhere.

Here we are 4 years later...and I'm as disappointed as ever with the lack of importance a bunch of our elected officials give to our public lands, land management agencies, funding, and maintaining what a bunch of us really find value in. There are still a small handful, from both sides of the aisle that seem to genuinely care, but they have no support from those in the leadership positions. Business as usual, and I don't even know why I expect a different outcome anymore.

Well said and I agree blind loyalty to political parties is out of control. I'm not defending the current administration handling of public lands I agree it's been poor at best. But the management of public lands is only one of many complex political issues a Administration has to deal with. I feel like if I step left or right I'll end up with crap on my boot so the best bet is to pick the smallest pile. For me that was the current Administration and it's looking like it will be again.

 

[beginnerhunter]

The thing about Trump is he seems to like helping people he thinks already love him. Like, if the AFGE suddenly started singing Trumps praises he'd probably call for a 10% increase in government employee wages. I'm certainly not carrying water for Trump. I think it's important to hold government officials accountable especially if you voted for them. But he, more than most, seems to want to help supporters and punish "enemies".

David Vela was nominated but didnt get a vote in the Senate for some reason. So he was named acting director.

If you want a less partisan take on things, listen to Whit Fosburgh on one of the podcasts (hunttalk or meateater I cant remember). He avoids partisan speech due to the nature of TRCP.

 

[TheJason]

But he, more than most, seems to want to help supporters himself and punish "enemies".

 

[TheJason]

If you want a less partisan take on things, listen to Whit Fosburgh on one of the podcasts (hunttalk or meateater I cant remember). He avoids partisan speech due to the nature of TRCP.

Whit offers a pretty pragmatic assessment of things.

 

[Sytes]

Same thoughts here. But we can pay Mar A Lago $650 a night for secret service agents.

Interesting...

I'm sure the liberal media shared the same concerns when Obama stayed @ the Beverly Wilshire Hotel?



Obama / November 2009 Portman Ritz-Carlton, Shanghai



Obama / Sept 2009 Waldorf-Astoria and Towers

Bummer, unable to look up their room rates... Under renovation. Betcha it's some big $$$.


Come on... Let's not have our Presidential security detail stay at the Best Western in the adjacent town to protect our president... Be it Obama or Trump.

Or hey! Maybe our Presidents can stay at the Hampton Inn... Save the Tax payers $$$.

This liberal crap is flat out garbage, especially when the relevance to public lands = jack squat.

 

[TheJason]

Oh FFS. The whataboutism rears its ugly head again. I'm referencing a President who OWNS the motel making the profit off the taxpayers, but yet is bragging about donating his salary. All while underfunding our NPS.

If you can't objectively connect the dots here I'm not going to help you. You're probably better off making fun of Mark or talking about breakfast.

 

[Sytes]

Same sentiment when you pandered the initial issue or concern over the costs paid for Trump Secret Service protective detail...

 

[Trial153]

Honesty i think the OP makes a pretty valid point.

Especially when i sit in the audience at some place like the pope and young convention last spring and listen to DTJ getting cheers when he expalined why the administration is pro public land.
Seems to me that once again we we have outdoorsmen unable to look past party identification and start judging actions.

 

[TheJason]

Same sentiment when you pandered the initial issue or concern over the costs paid for Trump Secret Service protective detail...

I'm not pandering anything Charles. I am specifically addressing the actions and words of the CURRENT administration and how it is a disservice to our National Parks System. Last I checked, Obama is no longer in office.

straw man
[ˌstrô ˈman]

NOUN
strawman (noun)

1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
   "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach" ·
   [more]

 

[406dn]

I think every president needs to have an outlet to blow off steam and relax. Not many have blown off steam as often or profited from it as much as the current president. Trump ridiculed Obama for the number of times he golfed, said he'd be so busy that he wouldn't have time to golf. I guess he's better at the job than he thought. He's blown well past the number of golf outings Obama enjoyed. It's icing on the cake when you stay at your own resort while taking a little break from DC. I have every confidence he is making certain the Secret Service gets their rooms at the lowest possible rate,,,,,,,,well maybe I have a little doubt there.

 

[88man]

No politics here but I see thats alot of labor & pension dollars for 62 parks. Its alot of staff making over $150,000 year. Big Government. I wish we could reduce the size of our government.

 

[Sytes]

I'm not pandering anything Charles. I am specifically addressing the actions and words of the CURRENT administration and how it is a disservice to our National Parks System. Last I checked, Obama is no longer in office.

Jason, I suppose we disagree. I'm all good with that.
I am specifically sharing a mutual, "FFS" moment about your opinion of the dots connected between a Presidential Secret Service protective detail hotel charge and how our President's Dept of Interior is managing our Public Lands.
I care not Republican or Democrat President.
My post shared there are absolutely no differences between Trump and others over the price if tea in China, nor hotel room charges.
For this topic, I care to keep the ball in the court.

Before people start waving their allegiance flags, I most often agree/value JLS's posts. With that said it does not mean we can not disagree with each other. Cheers, Jason.

 

[BuzzH]

No politics here but I see thats alot of labor & pension dollars for 62 parks. Its alot of staff making over $150,000 year. Big Government. I wish we could reduce the size of our government.

Well, news flash, it costs money to manage public land, and I don't expect people to work for free, not have a pension, or a competitive salary/benefit package.

I would venture a guess, that the park employees making 60K a year or less, outnumber those making anything close to 150K.

When you look at the number of citizens who enjoy our National Parks, I'd say the cost is worth it.

With just a guess...I was pretty close:

Average National Park Service Park Salary in 2024 | PayScale

The average salary for National Park Service Park employees is $66,619 in 2024. Visit PayScale to research National Park Service Park salaries, bonuses, reviews, benefits, and more!

www.payscale.com

National Park Service Salary Statistics

www.federalpay.org

Total payroll expenses for NPS is about 1.1 billion...DOD spending on payroll and benefits in 2013 was 150 Billion.

Costs of Military Pay and Benefits in the Defense Budget

For fiscal year 2013, the Department of Defense (DoD) requested about $150 billion to fund the pay and benefits of current and retired members of the military. That amount is more than one-quarter of DoD’s total base budget request.

www.cbo.gov

 

[TheJason]

Jason, I suppose we disagree. I'm all good with that.

So you disagree DJT is doing a disservice to the NPS? If so, please do elaborate.

 

[88man]

A quick google search show the salaries and wages really increased during the Obama years and since Trump they are down as much as 25% from the Obama peak. I know it costs money to manage public lands we just got to keep the costs in control. Who knows maybe just a few less global warming studies was all it took.

 

[Sytes]

So you disagree DJT is doing a disservice to the NPS? If so, please do elaborate.

Not mincing words, Jason. You've not seen me post anything of the sort, either direction.

My personal desire would be an American that puts country ahead of partisan affiliation... Above T.R.'s term of, Boss Party Politics.
I'd like an American who values industry and wildlands.

Tough one to have in the current political climate.

 

[rwc101]

The average NPS wage jumped from $58k in 2016 to $65k in 2017 and $66k in 2018.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Who on here has been directly affected good or bad by a public land policy by policy I'm talking as far reaching as policies that allowed or implemented oil and gas, solar and wind, logging etc... in the last 5 years?