If you pay $8000 for an Elk, is it a Trophy?

[Seldom Ever]

I think Sly was referring to the fact that drinking and hunting don't mix,period.Not in any way,shape or form.You may think it does,but some don't,including me.I won't hunt with anyone who drinks while hunting.Alcohol should be left at home.It impairs judgement even in small quantities,history has proven that over and over.Plus,it's not a cool thing to do around kids,IMHO.

Greenhorn,you must be as ugly as the South end of a North bound mule,all you talk about is hookers!! I've never been with a hooker,I've always managed to get mine for free.


It's a shame you have to pay for it,how much do those Chippendale guys charge you,anyhow

?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Of course you've always got yours for free Seldomever... It would be sort of pointless to charge yourself for spanking the monkey wouldn't it?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Seldom,

Don't speak for Sly, as he should want to clarify his own statements when he says I am unethical.

Your statements are just downright stupid, and I assure you, I would gladly welcome Greenhorn with a 12-pack and his couple of hookers to my camp LONG before I would extend a welcome to somebody who is gonna preach to me about how kids should never see someone drink a beer.

The only one who should be worried about having a beer around would be some weak-charactered person who can't handle themselves when tempted by a beer.

That is funnier than hell that someone who drinks a beer is un-ethical, and someone who kills deer tied to a tree is ethical. What a fugged up sense of right and wrong you have...

 

[Seldom Ever]

Elk gunner,I wasn't speaking for Sly,just posting my opinion as to what he meant,still a free country,especially here, and you can bite my ass if you don't like it.

As far as drinking in deer camp goes, it's just my opinion,that's all.Why can't anyone express there opinion around you or Greenhorn without being dragged through the muck ? Who died and made you king ? If you want to drink in your deer camp,go for it, I'm not stopping you.As far as I'm concerned,it's unethical,thats just my opinion,I have 2 elbows too.I grew up in a broken home where heavy drinking was the norm,and wound up an alcoholic.I haven't had a drink in 15 years,and I learned quite a few things on the road to recovery.One of those things is that addiction has nothing to do with a weak or strong character,the nature of the disease is to rob you of any character you may possess.So that's why I think it's unethical to drink around kids anytime,but especially while hunting.I think alcoholism is a genetic disorder,but I also think it is a learned problem. If a kid grows up with drinking as a normal thing, he learns to do it himself. From there it can progress, if there is a genetic tendency towards addiction.

Now,as to the deer tied to a tree,when did anyone tie a deer to a tree? You and Greenhorn both said fenced.You both suffer under the delusion that you are the last of the great white hunters,probably because you have a few bones on the wall.Tieing a deer to a tree and shooting it for sport is not sport,and it is unethical.But a fenced deer on 100's or 1000's of acres is a far cry from a deer tied to a tree,and you know it. I guess all that alcohol tends to make you exagerate and downright lie to gain points in an argument???

We are all entitled to our own opinions,and the right to express it in any medium,and thousands have died to give us that right.Maybe after you and greenhorn get a bit of age on you,some wisdom and humanity will come with it.Judging from your childish posts,you guys can't be beyond your late 20's ??

Here's hoping you grow up and learn what hunting is really about and get rid of the "trophy" mindset.Good hunting,hope you get what you want out of it,and most of all I hope you both learn to respect the rights of others,and grow old enough to realize that ridicule is a cruel thing that should be avoided whenever possible.

 

[Moosie]

"because you have a few bones on the wall."

UHhhhhhh .... GUNNER ?? HUMmmmm...I've seen his walls

...

Seldom, I think a beer in camp doesn't make one an Alchoholic. But thats just me.

 

[Seldom Ever]

Never said it made you an alcoholic Moosie,but I think it will teach anyone around you eventually that it's "ok to drink",or "ok to drink in deer camp".There's a big responsibility that comes with drinking in front of kids,so big a responsibility that it's better left not done,IMHO.Personally speaking,just my opinion only,it's better left out of deer camp.I think anyone who has a problem with leaving it at home for a few days,may have a bigger problem they're not aware of....


Bones on the wall don't make a hunter,just as winning multiple fist fights doesn't make you a man....

These are all just my opinions,even though in Elkgunner or greenhorns eyes they may be lower than cat scat,they're still mine and I'm entitled to express them

.

 

[Tom]

Chuck Adams has some whitetails from high fence ranches in Texas that are in P&Y. There's quotes about them in his biography book, "they were wild as hell".

You anti high fence people mostly don't know what you're talking about, except for hiking type hunts on public land, but that's not the only kind of hunting. da, wake up.

It doesn't matter how much you pay for it, it can go in B&C or P&Y as a trophy animal. There's even high fence animals in them, just not anymore, for the moment.
That was a stupid question, $8000 has nothing to do with whether its a trophy animal.

 

[Moosie]

Tom , I'm not against Ranch hunts But I think you're wrong about the entries in B/C.

Seldom, Next you're going to tell me I can't say "SHIT" at deer camp

FYI, I don't drink beer at deer camp. But I'm not one to Outlaw it. Just like the Game Ranches. Call me the Fence Strattling WUSSY. But thats how I truely feel.

I can Also tell you that Greeny and Weekend Warrior (AKA Silent but deadly) drank the night before we went hunting. We also Played the Fist Fight game with some Big Dumb A$$ Montana Sheep lover... Untill 2 in the Morning. Then left at 3:30AM to hike 4 hours in the Dark to Find a good bull. If someone can Still do that (I.E> Drink and Then take me further in the Next morning then Most guys go in a season), I'm not gonig to tell them they can't drink a Beer or two... I'll actually BUY them a beer or two

 

[Moosie]

Hey Tom, Like I said, I'm not against a Game Ranch... BUT according to B/C's Website (I couldn't find P/Y info but I didn't look to hard, I'll leave it to someone with time

) :

FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging* wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

HUNTER ETHICS
Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:

1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.

2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.

3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.

4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.

5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.

6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.

* Free-ranging as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club is any native North American big game animal that is unrestricted within its biological home range, has adequate protective cover, and reasonable opportunity to elude the hunter.

 

[Seldom Ever]

I'm not telling you anything about what you can and can't do,it's a free country,like I said.I'm telling you what works for me,and what I believe.

As for the fist fight and the beer drinking,would any of you have acted differently if your kids were along for the hunt ? Is that the kind of behaviour you guys want to see in your children when they are old enough to drink and be on there own ?

I'll betcha if the booze hadn't been a part of the equation,there would have been no fist fight. None of it makes you a man or a tough guy,neither does hiking 1200 miles into the wilderness.It's not about egos Moose man,it's about what you said earlier,having fun and killing stuff. All that other stuff you just mentioned [beer drinking and fighting,then waking up with a hangover and going hunting]is a bunch of guys posturing and strutting to show who's toughest.Young Jakes fighting and showing off,that's all it is,it has nothing to do with hunting,it's not a part of the sport.It's my opinion that drinking even a little impairs judgment,and science will back me up on that.

Like I said,I have 2 elbows too.

Edited to say this as well:I'm not saying outlaw drinking in or out of deer camp,I'm saying it should be a voluntary,ethical thing on the hunters part,to abstain.

We all make love to our wives too,but as far as I know none of us do it in front of our kids.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-21-2004 15:18: Message edited by: Seldom Ever ]</font>

 

[Moosie]

An 8k Elk would Still be a Trophy if I shot it. Because Everything I shoot is... to me

EDIT PART (If you're making love to my wife, I hope you're not doing it in front of me either

)

 

[Seldom Ever]

OOps,see below,double post by accident

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-21-2004 15:24: Message edited by: Seldom Ever ]</font>

 

[Seldom Ever]

Tch,tch,Moosie,I would never make love to your wife in front of you............

Besides,I have to save what energy I've got for my own wife.

 

[Tom]

Chuck Adams' high fence animals are in P&Y and they are in there from back when P&Y decided on a ranch by ranch basis. Its in his biography.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Tom,

Why on earth would any of us care what is in Chuck Adams' biography?

I am amazed that somebody would waste the ink to write such a dumb book, and even more amazed, that somebody would read it and refer to it...

There are only a couple of hunter's biographies that I would read, and one is Teddy Roosevelt's and the others are the books by Capstick.

And Tom, this whole thread has not been about spending $8000 for an Elk hunt. It has been about spending $8000 for an chance to have somebody hold your peepee while you shoot an Elk behind a High Fence.
Seldom,
I am pretty sure you can live your life however you want, and you don't need anyone to tell you how to behave. But I sure as hell have no idea why you keep bragging about having two elbows.

My guess is you were just letting Greenhorn know that you keep the elbows limbered up by spanking your monkey...

 

[Washington Hunter]

I was wondering about the talk about having two elbows also

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That was a stupid question, $8000 has nothing to do with whether its a trophy animal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom: Coming from you, and being that it was my question, I will take that as a compliment... it was such a stupid question that this thread is going on 100 posts.

And one more thing...you really can't compare a high fence whitetail deer hunt to a high fence elk hunt. A whitetail deer would probably be happy to live out it's life in less then a square mile area, whereas to an elk 100 square miles is nothing.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-21-2004 19:22: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[Nut]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElkGunner:
It has been about spending $8000 for an chance to have somebody hold your
peepee while you shoot an Elk behind a High Fence.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They would have to do more than hold my peepee for 8K.

 

[Delw]

I am waiting for more ethical posts by seldom.

Not trying to pick sides but it is a real crack up when someone that does something than all of a sudden he/she changes and its unethical.

Alcoholics and ex smokers should be the last people to tell anyone that drinking or smoking is not ethical.


I dont drink(except at home and laughlin) and I dont really care for the beer in camp, but you know what I would never tell anyone that it is unethical around camp wether there is kids there or not. Or that they couldnt drink it.

I have a kook sister inlaw BTW who is a cop, she used to drink like a fish now she doesnt, she told everyone at a dare program that if there parents had one beer they were alcohilics WTF kinda shit is that. She did get pulled from the dare program for that also.

If you dont drink and/or smoke you have to have alot of balls to complain about someone that does and your a dipshit, and if you did drink and/or smoke and complain to someone that does it just shows what a total idiot and hypicrite(sp) you are.

Kinda funny it was ok for you and you couldnt control yourself therefore its bad for everyone else.

 

[Seldom Ever]

If you miss a deer because you didn't use the rear sight,does that mean you can never tell anyone else not to make the same mistake,because sharing your mistakes makes you a hypocrite ?

How else are we to learn,if we can't share the mistakes we make as we go along ?

 

[Delw]

As you know that has nothing to do with what I said, but nice try,


Delw