If you pay $8000 for an Elk, is it a Trophy?

[Washington Hunter]

I say shoot all the privtely owned elk until there are none left. If it was up to me it wouldn't be legal to own elk, so therefore nobody would be shooting them behind a fence. The ones that already are owned may as well be shot...what else are you going to do with them?

 

[Q2Dude]

Would I consider it to be a trophy? Not a trophy for me. First of all, I wouldnt pay $8000 for ANY kind of high fenced hunt. Some do and to them I'm quite sure its a trophy. From what I understand, most of these, or at least some, are NO KILL, NO PAY. What does that tell you? If these places are so "tough" to hunt, how can they make a guarantee like that? If you buy a high dollar landowner tag on the Gila, is the landowner going to give you your money back, or a big percentage of it, if you dont harvest? Not quite. High fenced is high fenced in my book. Thats my opinion, and thats what I think you were looking for.

 

[BbarC]

Would someone please give a defintion for the word wildlife???
I have elk, axis deer, fallow deer, blackbuck antelope, and whitetails behind a high fence [ plus a few rattlesnakes}.Are these animals wildlife???I have a neighbor that feeds some whitetail [about 73] and they NEVER get out of about a 30 acre patch [not high fenced]. Are these deer wildlife?? Would just like to clarify some terms. Thanks Bob

 

[Q2Dude]

I have a neighbor that feeds some whitetail [about 73] and they NEVER get out of about a 30 acre patch [not high fenced]

But they could if they wanted to, correct?

 

[Q2Dude]

Acording to Mr. Webster

wildlife\:nonhuman living thing and esp.\wild animals living in their natural environment.

I would assume that this means without any type of enclosure. When I was young, we had cattle and kept them in a fence. We did this so we had control of them and to make it imposible for them to leave. When we wanted them for vaccination, feeding, branding, etc., we knew that we could find them within this fenced perimiter. Just a thought.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-24-2004 10:07: Message edited by: Q2Dude ]</font>

 

[Moosie]

HEY Q2, I slept the Wife a Couple times and Have kids to show for it. TRUST ME, it wasn't a hard hunt, but my Kids are still Trophy's to me....

Your point of it not being a Trophy because it's "GUARENTEED" is just as Silly as MY approach !!! (BTW, Welcome aboard, Glad to have you debating with us

)

Washington hunter. I FEEL EXACTLY the same !!!! Except, with Chickens... WHY in the World should we have TAME, enclosed Chickens. HOW UNETHICAL !!!!! I say, Kill all the enclosed chickens and Let's just hunt them in the Wild !!!!! LONG LIVE THE FREE RANGE CHICKENS !!!!!!!!! YES !!! MAybe we could get rid of PIGS too !!! There are Wild ones... AHHHh they are Wildlife too correct ?

BUT NOOooooo It';s just ELK and DEER you guys are Crying about. If you're gonig to Stick to a Side, Follow it through !!!

EDIT (Except.. YOU did Say White tails are OK to be enclosed. So I think it's jsut Muleddeer and Elk then ?) End Edit

(Moosie in his Chant voise....)
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
FREE THE CHICKENS !!!
(End Chant ............)

 

[Q2Dude]

Moosie,

What I did say, is that its not a trophy to ME and that its not something I would do. To each their own, its just not the way I would ever do it. If thats someone elses visions of a "romantic" elk hunt, then thats their choice. By the way, good one about the wife and kids. Ya' had me cracking up on that one!

 

[Moosie]

Q2.. thats My job to make at least 1 person laugh a day

I liked the Chicken Joke better, but anytime ya talk about "DOING it" or Frting that usually brings a Chuckle too

 

[elkfarmer]

hey Q2Dude, the hole point here is just because some people don't consider it a trophy doesn't mean it is wrong. alot of people out there are not like alot of people on this board and take time off of work to go on a big time western hunt, mostly due to time and priority from there family and jobs. they want to spend a weekend away from it all and have a good time, and bring home something for there mantle. nothing wrong with that, plain and simple. problem is all the so called do gooders think that their way is the only way. thats called ignorance.

oops, sorry bearturd. i wasn't going to fast for you was i?

 

[Q2Dude]

elkfarmer,

If you will read my last post, you'll see that I'm only stating my opinion with regards to myself. Again, its not something that I would ever want to do. If thats the way people like to hunt, then thats their deal. Its certainly not mine.

 

[Q2Dude]

Hey guys, heres another little scenerio that I think thats related to this very topic. I have a local contractor friend that wanted to learn to bowhunt. He bought a bow, learned to shoot pretty good, and over the last 6-7 years went on several different open bowhunts. On all the different hunts he went on, and there were many, he NEVER HARVESTED AN ANIMAL. He did, however, have many opportunities including one on a giant NM bull. Feeling the self imposed pressure, he started going to a local high fenced "Game Ranch" and shot everything that walked. Mouflans (sp?), Texas Dalls, feral hogs, corsicans, etc. A couple months ago, same ranch calls him to see if he wanted a Buffalo that had been vacated off of Catalina Island. He loaded up the family and headed for the game ranch. When he got there, the buffalo was standing in the corner of a large fenced area. He walked to within 10 yds. and put an arrow through it with the family watching. He's been to south Texas a few times and harvested a nice whitey (high fenced) over a battery operated feeder. According to him, when the feeder goes off, the critters come running like its a dinner bell ringing. Is he proud of the critters that hes taken on these hunts? Probably so. Would he be more proud had he taken the giant NM bull, or the several muley bucks that evaded him? What do you think?

 

[Bill M]

I usually don't side with anyone but think its time to voice my opinion. Im backing Moosie, Free The Chickens !

 

[beardown]

Moosie...You actually support this?

As for the tough guy in NY,what can I say? You are from NY, that should say it all!!

 

[antlershed]

Round and round we go! I vote to free the chicken's as well. And please let any captive worms go.

 

[Bill M]

Free The Elk Free The Elk O wait a minute I mean Free The Chickens Free The Chickens

 

[elkfarmer]

ok bearfart, what does being from NY have to do with anything. and i still don't get this whole whitetail deer thing you got going on, are you saying they are easy to hunt?

i'm sorry, do you think
they are easy to hunt?

Q2, i can respect that, that is the way it should be. everyone is entitled to there's.

 

[beardown]

Yes I do think they are easy to hunt! In fact the only challenge I see is deciding if you should get a tree lounger or the blind with a stove in it!

Maybe I could make it a challenge by cutting a hole in a fence, shoot my P&Y whity and sneek it out without Jim Bob shootin me!

 

[Washington Hunter]

Great argument Moosie (free the chickens)...I don't know what to say to that. How long do you suppose chickens have been domesticated? 10 thousand years? I have no idea, but I'm not sure it matters. How do domestic chickens affect hunting?

Nobody has explained to me yet why it is ok to own deer and elk. Why is that? Is it because everybody knows it is wrong and goes totally against this country's hunting heritage? When we first became a country I think the idea was for us to NOT use Europe's style of game management, which was landowner's owned all game, and only the rich could hunt. Now how do game farms keep us away from that philosophy? Answer: they don't. Case closed. Those who don't get it by now I don't think ever will. I'll leave you with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's statement on the subject:

RMEF POSITION STATEMENT on GAME FARMING(Adopted April 7, 1994)


Background
The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation’s mission and objectives include conserving natural habitats; perpetuating wild, well-managed, free-ranging elk populations that may be hunted and otherwise enjoyed; and encouraging sound management of elk, other wildlife and their habitat.
The RMEF defines game farming as the “intensive husbandry of privately owned game animals held captive under penned conditions.” The raising of captive elk, red deer and other Cervids (members of the deer family) on private game farms is proliferating throughout North America. Concurrently, wildlife scientists and veterinarians, state wildlife management agencies and conservation organizations have experienced serious concerns about potential risks to the health and welfare of free-ranging wildlife populations. Specific concerns include:


The possibility of disease transmission from game-farm animals to free-ranging wildlife populations. Serious disease outbreaks have been documented among captive elk herds in recent years. The current technology of disease testing is unable to assure with absolute certainty the absence of tuberculosis, chronic wasting disease and certain other diseases in individual animals. The impacts of these diseases upon wild, free-ranging elk populations could be significant and enduring.


The possibility of genetic pollution due to hybridization with escaped game farm animals. Red deer and other closely related exotic Cervus species are able to interbreed with North American elk. The current technology of genetic testing is unable to identify hybrids beyond the first generation with absolute certainty. While the long-range consequences of hybridization with exotic species upon wild elk populations are as yet unknown, they could be significantly detrimental and irreversible.


The presence and ultimate influence of hybridization and disease introduction upon wild, free-ranging elk populations may not be fully realized for many years.


The impossibility of assuring that wildlife held in captivity will never escape. Numerous escapes from game farms have been documented.The loss of wildlife habitat through fencing of winter ranges and migration corridors.


The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation:


Believes that raising captive elk, red deer and other Cervids on private game farms in states with wild, free-ranging elk populations poses serious risks to the health and viability of those wild elk herds due to the potential of disease transmission and genetic pollution from hybridization with escaped exotic game-farm animals.


Encourages additional research, when necessary, to further define the significance and long-range impact of these risk factors.


Believes that the loss of habitat through fencing of winter ranges and migration corridors may be detrimental to wild free-ranging elk populations.


Supports the enactment of game farm regulatory legislation, at both the state and federal level, crafted to protect the health and viability of wild free-ranging elk populations.


Supports the continued involvement of state wildlife agencies in the regulation of the game farming industry in matters related to the protection of the health and welfare of wild, free-ranging elk populations.


Believes that the raising of red deer, other non-native (exotic) Cervus species, sub-species and hybrids presents an unacceptable threat to wild, free-ranging elk populations.


Objects to any form of game farming for the purpose of raising red deer, other exotic Cervus species, sub-species or hybrids thereof in states with wild, free-ranging elk populations.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-25-2004 01:08: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[elkfarmer]

hey bearfart, impress us for a while with all the big racks you have, post some pics for us you big time hunter. if you have any.....

well i guess by the great words of the RMEF, they support me. ain't that something.
and if they said it, then it must be ok. thanks washington huntress for finally agreeing with me.......

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-25-2004 07:07: Message edited by: elkfarmer ]</font>

 

[Moosie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> but I'm not sure it matters. How do domestic chickens affect hunting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HOW ? Well.. How does it Affect hunting if Someone hunts a Domestic Elk.

Both Questions Valid, both same Answers.. IT DOESN'T

You're argueing that Chickens have Been domesticaed FOr a LONG LONG TIME.. Good Arguement (FOR US) because on that Argument there are still WILD sage Chickens amongst other ones, and Yet we can Still hunt them with no Problems. Same goes for Elk, Just because someone owns an elk, doesn't mean it Shuts down Elk hunting in the Wild for others. THANK YOU AGAIN for bringing up points to shoot your's down. That makes my Job so much easier

Someone Summerize the RMEF 6 page Quote that washington Cliped out for me,

~FREE THE DOMESTIC CHICKENS !!!!!!