Hunters, Who Should You Vote For?

[Nemont]

IT,

"Six years ago, the huge Jonah field south of Pinedale had 58 producing gas wells. Today, there are 600, and a federal Bureau of Land Management proposal calls for 3,100 more. That would average out to a gas well every 10 acres......"

Do you know how many of those wells had been issued permits prior to January 01? The bulk of them were so how does that result in the president being responsible?


Also when you say "I blame" that reduces it back to the level of opinion and you know what they say about opinions. Doesn't get to the level of proof. The sage grouse issue has not just come about since Pres. Bush took office. But I know you irrational, blind hatred won't allow you to look at any facts.

I'm pretty sure a Kerry administration would not be as bad on environmental issues as Bush has been. They might even undo some of the damage he's done to environmental laws and regulations. His administration has been circumventing them in any way they can.

What environmental law has the pres. been circumventing? Again if you want to make accusations you should provide the proof. If they are circumventing the environmental laws that should be relatively easy to prove.

It is simple just provide hard evidence not opinion, hearsay and editorials in liberal rags who are cannot print an objective piece of journalism if they had to. See it isn't that difficult.


Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, This sounds like a good book to read:

Strategic Ignorance : Why the Bush Administration Is Recklessly Destroying a Century of Environmental Progress
by Carl Pope, Paul Rauber


Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
Americans ought to be madder than they are about the Bush administration's environmental deceit: that's the not-surprising core message of this detailed book, coauthored by Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club, and Sierra magazine editor Rauber. That citizens aren't appalled and outraged in greater measure, they write, is thanks to what they cast as the slick rhetoric, obfuscated facts, deliberate disinformation and Orwellian way with words of Bush and his pro-growth cohorts (a Clean Air Act that adds to pollution, a Healthy Forest Initiative that encourages both more logging and more forest fires). In impassioned broad strokes, Pope and Rauber report that Bush and his environment-unfriendly cabinet (Interior, Energy, Agriculture and EPA, in particular but not exclusively) have stripped 235 million wilderness acres of protection from logging and mining interests; funneled billions of dollars in subsidies to giant agribusinesses; rewritten scientific reports to excise unwelcome findings on global warming; defunded Superfund cleanup of hundreds of toxic waste dumps; given near carte blanche to polluting industries to self-regulate; and even lied about the quality of Manhattan's air in the days after September 11. But the real energy of the book comes from its accumulation of small facts to paint the picture-of obsessive secrecy, crony capitalism and (or so the authors claim) the administration's conscious, unabashed commitment to the economic exploitation of the air America breathes, the water it drinks and the earth it walks on.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From Booklist
When even his staunchest allies concede that the environment is Bush's Achilles' heel, writers intent on scrutinizing the president's policies might very well stagger under a preponderance of evidence against an unabashedly antienvironment administration. So challenged, Sierra Club executives Pope and Rauber painstakingly analyze how, where, and why the Bush White House began compiling what is frequently considered the worst environmental record in presidential history. Pope and Rauber are........."

 

[Nemont]

But the real energy of the book comes from its accumulation of small facts to paint the picture-of obsessive secrecy, crony capitalism and (or so the authors claim) the administration's conscious, unabashed commitment to the economic exploitation of the air America breathes, the water it drinks and the earth it walks on.

don't suppose that means the editorial writer couldn't prove all the charges in the book?

Ithaca, I am not saying that Pres. Bush has a perfect track record on the enviroment. What makes no sense me is intelligent people like you accuse the pres. w/o solid facts. Have you read the book you referenced? When you support something that you have researched because you have already formed an opinion that would be the equivalent of spouting off about Michael Moore's movie without seeing. I have found that the leftist that would rather be under the U.N. Charter then the constitution of the U.S. usually spout out this type of rhetoric.


Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's a little more:

Sierra Club Compares Forest Policy Records of President Bush and Senator Kerry

Washington, D.C. - Americans who care about protecting their homes, wild places and wildlife should take heart in Senator Kerry’s National Forest policy proposed today. Senator Kerry’s proposal recognizes the importance of protecting America’s wild and ancient forests for current and future generations and providing the necessary funds and resources to protect communities from wildfire.

The Bush administration’s version of forest policy does little or nothing to reduce the risk of wildfire to Western communities while removing citizen participation, interfering with the judicial system and increasing commercial logging.

"President Bush and Senator Kerry offer very different priorities for the proper management of America’s National Forests," said Carl Pope, Sierra Club Executive Director. "Senator Kerry’s proposal offers a strong framework for protecting the best qualities of our National Forests and creating valuable long-term jobs and economic benefits. President Bush’s policy puts the interests of the timber industry first."

John Kerry’s proposal would achieve the following:

· Instead of wasting taxpayers’ dollars to plan more clearcuts and build more subsidized logging roads for the timber industry, the proposal provides more funding and personnel for fuel reduction activities within the "wildland-urban interface" to best help protect communities.

· Protects the last remaining ancient and wild forests in Alaska, the Pacific Northwest, Sierra Nevada mountains, Northern Rockies and the rare old growth forests in the eastern United States.

The Bush administration’s forest policies have:

· Shifted priorities to the commercial timber sales program instead of community protection.

· Rewritten the Roadless Area Conservation Rule and removed protections for America’s last remaining wild forests including the Tongass and Chugach National Forests;

· Dramatically increased timber sales and subsidies including: 50 timber sales planned in the Tongass alone; an extra $5 million to subsidize commercial timber sales in the Tongass; and a proposed $6 million on one of the largest timber sales in modern history in the remote Siskiyou Wild Rivers region in southern Oregon. This sale alone could cost taxpayers anywhere from $3 million to $100 million, according to the non-partisan group Taxpayers for Common Sense.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, I haven't read the book yet, but I bet it gives plenty of examples of what we've been talking about.

 

[Nemont]

Sierra Club Compares

IT,
Suppose the liberal Sierra club ever thought any republican Pres. did any good?

You can trot out all the leftist propaganda you want what I am after is on the ground proof about what we are talking about.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ne., You don't believe this actually is happening?

"Rewritten the Roadless Area Conservation Rule and removed protections for America’s last remaining wild forests including the Tongass and Chugach National Forests;

· Dramatically increased timber sales and subsidies including: 50 timber sales planned in the Tongass alone; an extra $5 million to subsidize commercial timber sales in the Tongass; and a proposed $6 million on one of the largest timber sales in modern history in the remote Siskiyou Wild Rivers region in southern Oregon. This sale alone could cost taxpayers anywhere from $3 million to $100 million, according to the non-partisan group Taxpayers for Common Sense."

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ne., I'm overwhelmed by how much I'm finding that documents Dubya's anti environment record. Here's just this year, so far:

July
Army Corps of Engineers ordered to protect West Virginia streams from mining waste (07/09/04)

EPA loses Yucca Mountain court case (07/09/04)


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June
Missouri River restoration battle takes bad turn for wildlife (06/22/04)

Interior Department retains protection for desert plant (06/03/04)

Bush administration slashes funding for global warming research (06/03/04)

EPA will cover climate change, for a change (06/02/04)

FWS may relax wildlife protections on military bases (06/02/04)

Bush administration delays murrelet protection for timber industry (06/01/04)

Bush administration rejects another new park (06/01/04)

Federal court rejects EPA snowmobile standards (06/01/04)


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May
EPA bows to pressure to find "lost" mercury pollution (05/30/04)

For the EPA, wet asbestos removal up in the air (05/30/04)

Budget cuts hurting national parks, reports watchdog group (05/28/04)

Corps loosens clean water, stream protections for mountaintop removal mining (05/28/04)

Park Service seeks delay in Yellowstone snowmobile decision (05/28/04)

Reversing course, U.S. Army maintains environmental protections (05/27/04)

Bush administration may roll back fuel standards (05/27/04)

Bush administration unveils controversial salmon plan (05/25/04)


Back to top Entire Month of May




April
Pentagon misses deadline on perchlorate report (04/30/04)

Smoggy skies affecting more than half of all Americans (04/29/04)

EPA air experts accuse Bush administration of altering science (04/29/04)

Interior Dept. limiting "critical habitat" protection (04/28/04)

Hatchery fish to be counted under ESA (04/28/04)

Court questions industry-friendly EPA fertilizer rule (04/23/04)

Church leaders chastise President Bush for bad air policies (04/22/04)

EPA stands firm on sulfur regulations (04/22/04)


Back to top Entire Month of April




March
Court orders Energy Department to release more Cheney task force records (03/31/04)

EPA chief Leavitt failing to lay down the law (03/31/04)

Yellowstone bison slaughtered to please ranchers (03/31/04)

Plans for Phoenix mine reborn (03/31/04)

New EPA storm-water rule won't control polluted runoff (03/31/04)

EPA letting Clean Water Act violators off the hook (03/30/04)

EPA uses utility company memos to craft controversial mercury policy (03/30/04)

Court orders Bush administration to stop hiding forest documents (03/30/04)


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February
More drilling slated for Padre Island (02/27/04)

DOE holds nuke cleanup funds hostage (02/26/04)

More industry materials borrowed by EPA for its mercury rule (02/26/04)

Missouri River management plan ignores fish protections (02/26/04)

Fish and Wildlife Service gives sucker fish a break (02/25/04)

Bush cuts funding for endangered species (02/25/04)

Federal mining whistleblower silenced, demoted (02/24/04)

Get the lead out: EPA fails to protect D.C. drinking water (02/23/04)


Back to top Entire Month of February




January
EPA's mercury pollution plan mirrors industry's recommendations (01/30/04)

Bush administration leaves nuclear plant safety up to contractors (01/29/04)

Energy Department promoting carbon sequestration (01/27/04)

White House wants to let EPA ignore pesticide consultations (01/27/04)

EPA touts new, cleaner cars (01/26/04)

White House offers small funding boost for Northwest salmon recovery (01/26/04)

Forest Service to boost logging in Appalachian forests (01/23/04)

Forest Service drops "survey and manage" rule for loggers (01/23/04)


Back to top Entire Month of January


================================================

Here's where to view Bush's record chronologically This is terrific for anyone who wants proof of how anti- environment the Dubya administration has been. Just click on the year near the top of the page)

http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2004.asp

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's more info on the Dubya anti-environment anti -wildlife record:

The Bush Record
The Bush Presidency has been the most anti-environmental in the modern era. In partnership with a compliant Congress, it is busily dismantling the framework of environmental laws, standards, and enforcement that is the foundation for environmental protection and preservation in the United States. The following material is taken from Environment2004’s report, The Bush Environmental Record: An Unprecedented Assault on our Health and Heritage. A complete version of this report.........,

http://www.environment2004.org/documents.php

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I can't be posting all this anti-environment stuff about Dubya all nite. Here's where to find page after page of proof.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=bush+record+on+environment&btnG=Google+Search

 

[feclnogn]

Well at the end of the day I will not be voting with hunting as my main issue. There are bigger fish to fry right now and I just don't trust JFK's cooking.

Ithaca and Gunner, were you two not at one point giving people a hard time for being one issue voters?? Now it seems you are using one issue to define your vote. Maybe I'm wrong on this, if so let me know.

Gunner, your such a phony, you and I know when you walk into the voting booth on Nov 2nd you will be voting for Bush. On a side note when I read your posts and I have come to the conclusion that you are a master at bending other peoples words to suit your agenda. I assume you must be a politician, a lawyer or a con artist. Maybe you are all three.

 

[leftylock]

Unfortunatly, Bush gets my vote from a sportsmans perspective. However there are many other issues to be dealt with, and taking these into consideration, I would have to go with ---Bush!

 

[Muledeer4me]

My vote would go to Bush!!!
What good will it do us as hunter's to have a butt load of animals if we dont have access to firearm's or to our public lands?

 

[Muledeer4me]

http://www.gunbooks.org/links.html


["Environmental Organizations:
Environmental Organizations Hunters or Anglers Can Safely Support:

CFM (Conservation Federation of Missouri 800/575-2322)
TNC (The Nature Conservancy 703/841-5300)**
NWF (National Wildlife Federation 703/790-4100)*
IWLA (Izaac Walton League of America 301/548-0150)
Other prominent national environmental organizations have official statements of neutrality on hunting, but their actions indicate a strong anti-hunting bias. Examples include Sierra Club, Audubon Society, Wilderness Society, and the League of Conservation Voters. This applies to the national organizations - often these groups are made up of relatively independent state or local chapters, some of which may be truly neutral or sometimes actually pro-hunting.

* NWF was pretty much founded by hunters and anglers. Over the years they have become more and more silent about their support for those who hunt or fish, though they almost never took a position against us. However, recent literature from the NWF regarding prarie dogs has a decided anti-hunting flavor. I will be watching them closely.

**Though the TNC national organization has no detectable anti-hunting bias, and some local chapters are very hunting-friendly, there are some local chapters that are reported to have a significant anti-hunting bias. Though these are not representative of the TNC organization at large, sportsmen should first educate themselves about their local chapter before offering support to that local chapter."]

 

[Nemont]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nemont:
Also in interest of fairness why don't you provide one reason that any hunter would vote for Kerry.

Nemont
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can I have some time on that one???

He has said he will appoint a Salmon Czar. And he does fish on the Little Wood River for Trout..

EG,
Still waiting for the info on why hunters should vote for Kerry.

Nemont