FWP being systematically dismantled

[SAJ-99]

if good relations is asking for landowner permission to access federal public land with legal public access then i don't want good relations.

that's a lopsided "good" if you ask me.

At best, I could see it as giving them the courtesy of informing them I will be accessing the land in case they see me out there. Asking for permission that isn't needed is just asking for a problem.

 

[Forkyfinder]

At best, I could see it as giving them the courtesy of informing them I will be accessing the land in case they see me out there. Asking for permission that isn't needed is just asking for a problem.

I think asking permission to access accessible public land is the best symptom to highlight the disease.

 

[Nameless Range]

At best, I could see it as giving them the courtesy of informing them I will be accessing the land in case they see me out there. Asking for permission that isn't needed is just asking for a problem.

On BLM it’s one thing, but you should never ask permission to access a road with unrecorded easement or public availability in question, as it can set a precedent and serve as evidence in the future when that road’s status is adjudicated.

 

[Forkyfinder]

On BLM it’s one thing, but you should never ask permission to access a road with unrecorded easement or public availability in question, as it can set a precedent and serve as evidence in the future when that road’s status is adjudicated.

How does this happen, legally?

Its beyond me the county can build a road - maintain it years and then a landowner can pillage the road and access later.

 

[Eric Albus]

Ive heard incorrectly from someone who works there, apparently.

Is that in a policy somewhere?

I’d certainly be interested to know what and who is getting FWP assistance if the property isn’t open to public access. Feel free to PM me, cause nobody is supposed to get a dime if they aren’t allowing near unlimited access.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I’d certainly be interested to know what and who is getting FWP assistance if the property isn’t open to public access. Feel free to PM me, cause nobody is supposed to get a dime if they aren’t allowing near unlimited access.

Sent.

 

[Wildabeest]

How does this happen, legally?

It varies by state, but in UT you would need to show that the access was continuous for 20 years or more, it has to be “open and notorious” which basically means it wasn’t hidden or secret, and it has to be “adverse” which means without specific consent of the landowner. Montana seems to have similar criteria, but the continuous use requirement is only 5 years.

 

[Nameless Range]

How does this happen, legally?

Its beyond me the county can build a road - maintain it years and then a landowner can pillage the road and access later.

I can think of two roads within 10 miles of the house I grew up in that were public my entire childhood that are now private.

One was considered a county Road, was on the county gas tax roll, and had a history of county maintenance. The other was a USFS road.

The fight for those roads is dependent on a lot of things I won’t claim to be an expert on: the appetite a county attorney has for fighting for the public, the money they have available, the case they think they have, etc. Montana’s counties are now filled with certain residents who have much larger budgets than their county attorneys office, and county attorney offices are spread thin as hell in a lot of instances.

In the case of that forest service road, when the controversy spun up I was told by the district ranger that they considered it public and were going to fight for it. When I followed up a year later, they felt that they didn’t have a case, and the fact that the parcel through which that road went was once enrolled in block management that required sign in to use the road hurt their case . When I really dug into that situation, I actually sympathized a bit with the landowners who shut it down. They were told certain things would happen that never did.

I think it’s complicated, and aside from a frighteningly small number of organizations like PLWA, it’s up to the vigilance of counties and their citizens. So many roads we use every day to access public lands don’t have recorded access at the local clerk and recorders office.

 

[peterk1234]

It varies by state, but in UT you would need to show that the access was continuous for 20 years or more, it has to be “open and notorious” which basically means it wasn’t hidden or secret, and it has to be “adverse” which means without specific consent of the landowner. Montana seems to have similar criteria, but the continuous use requirement is only 5 years.

Adverse Possession