Hunters, Who Should You Vote For?

[Nemont]

Nemont,

Would you say that Dubya is the BEST President ever on the Environment/Hunting/Fishing???

No and never have said that. Go read what I wrote in my first post on this thread. You and and Ithaca et. al. are participating in what each of you accuse the other side of. You are letting emotions govern your thinking and not looking at all the facts.

Do I the the president's policy is always the best for hunters, no I don't. I also do not think John Kerry and John Edwards will do anything to help hunters either. Ralph Nader wants to basically ban all "dangerous" consumer products and since I own guns I won't vote for him.

So as a hunter I really have nobody to vote for. In the real world though I am unable to boil all the issues down to that one define question. I still must consider many factors: the economy, the military, whom I believe represents my values, which candidate would I trust, Am I better off then 4 years ago etc, etc, etc. While Bush does not get a plus in every category I still feel he is the better candidate. I could almost convince myself that John Edwards could get my vote but I just can't see ever voting for John Kerry.

If you were truly a Republican, like you said you were in some other posts, then a guy like John Kerry should send shudders through your system. Shooting a few pheasants once doesn't make him the hunters candidate. He has voted for anti gun legislation, He to the left of Ted Kennedy for god sakes. Sorry can't vote for the guy. Won't waste a vote on Nader so I will vote Bush. But if you can vote for Kerry then great that is what makes America great. I just know that I won't vote for JFK

Nemont

P.S. still waiting for the evidence of the Pres. raping the planet.

 

[JoseCuervo]

So we can agree that Bush is not the BEST President ever, on the Environment/Hunting/Fishing. And, as an American, I deserve the Best!!!

A re-election should be similar to a contract renewal. Based on the first 4 years of Dubya's Enviro/Hunting/Fishing, would you think he is doing good enough, to give him 4 more years, and keep in mind the next 4 years will not have him worrying about Re-Election?

I have yet to see where anybody has stated Dubya has earned and "A+" on hunting/fishing issues. I don't even think he would get a "C-", but I would love to be proven wrong, if any can.

In fact, on issues related to Hunters, I think the best we can hope for is that he treats it like his Military Service, and just doesn't show up...

 

[Nemont]

I have yet to see where anybody has stated Dubya has earned and "A+" on hunting/fishing issues. I don't even think he would get a "C-", but I would love to be proven wrong, if any can

and I have yet to see anyone prove that he is raping the environment. So if that little bit of an issue makes you vote for Kerry then more power to you.

Kerry gets an F on almost any issue that has to do with hunting or gun rights. So if you deserve the best how can you vote for him?

If you decide all your politics on one single issue how are you able to exist in the real world?

Nemont

 

[Nemont]

[No message]

 

[JoseCuervo]

I didn't say who I WOULD vote for. Count me as "undecided".....

But the purpose of this thread was who, if you were just to consider Hunting, you SHOULD vote for.

To go through the Exercise, one should likely do a report card on Dubya.

I hunt, Deer, (WT and Mule), Elk, Ducks, Geese, Upland Bird. I fish for Salmon, Steelhead, and Trout. Let me see how the Report Card would fill out....

Mule Deer = Dubya gets an F. Overgrazing BLM land where I hunt Deer has got to stop, if one wants a passing grade.

WT Deer = Dubya gets an B. I hunt the WT up in the Forest Lands on the ClearWater, and over logging and irresponsible Clear Cutting seems to work well for my hunting. (Can't give an A on that, as the Clear Cutting is hurting Salmon Habitat in the same area.)

Elk = D-, as we have too many cows eating on Forest Service Land where I hunt Elk. Let's get rid of the cows, and improve Elk Hunting. Not as bad as the BLM land for Mule Deer, so no F.

Ducks = C, not sure that I can tell an affect on my hunting, as many of our ducks are Local ducks, and not sure that Dubya's policies affect. I could be convinced to change the grade.

Geese = F, Losing too much of our quality Goose hunting areas here, because Dubya refuses to fund the programs needed in Calif/AZ/Texas to keep people from wanting to move to Idaho and subdividing all of our Goose hunting Fields.

Upland = Incomplete, I struggle with what is the Root Cause of our Phesant populations going to Zero here. Not sure if it is too many skunks, too many Yotes, a Pesticide, too many subdivisions. Not sure Dubya's role in this Hunting Disaster, but will keep looking for opportunity to blame him.

Salmon = F, no other grade could be possible, as he has done nothing Positive, and only tries to ruin the runs. From his decision to count Hatchery Fish, to his ignoring all the best Scientists, he has been a complete Zero on Salmon. And standing in front of Ice Harbor Dam, and proclaiming the dam WON'T come down shows he is not looking to improve the grade.

Steelhead = F, see above

Trout = F C'mon, the guy is a Texan, at best he watches big bellied guys on TV catching Bass. That ain't fishin', that is just drinkin'.

Let's see...
F
B
D-
C
F
Inc
F
F
F

Hmmmm.. if your kid came home with that report card, would you let him do what he wants for the next 4 years??? I think not...

Would your report card look differently??? I understand his actions on the Missouri have been completely detrimental to fisherman.

 

[Nemont]

If my kid was getting graded based soley on opinions of other people and not cold hard facts then I would question the fairness of the grading system not the kid.

Geese = F, Losing too much of our quality Goose hunting areas here, because Dubya refuses to fund the programs needed in Calif/AZ/Texas to keep people from wanting to move to Idaho and subdividing all of our Goose hunting Fields

I thought you were an advocate of people doing whatever they want to do to their own private land? You keep telling me you are only concerned with getting cows off public land and whatever happens on private land so be it. Sometimes you flip/flop like Kerry.
Nemont

 

[Nemont]

Also in interest of fairness why don't you provide one reason that any hunter would vote for Kerry.

Nemont

 

[JoseCuervo]

I would just like it to be safe, healthy, and comfortable for people to live in SoCal, PHX, and Texas, and keep moving up here. I am all for people up here having Private Property Rights to subdivide their land, but I would prefer it not impact my hunting.

If we are to subsidize somebody's lifestyle, I think it should be mine...

And Nemont, you better prepare your kids to realize much of the grading that happens in their lives, including school/college is based on opinions, so be nice to the teachers.

 

[Oak]

I sure hope you two have someone you can bill all this time to.

Oak

 

[Nemont]

If we are to subsidize somebody's lifestyle, I think it should be mine

So you would like to be on welfare of some sort also?

Nemont

 

[JoseCuervo]

Oak,
Now you know the "value" of an education...

 

[Nemont]

And Nemont, you better prepare your kids to realize much of the grading that happens in their lives, including school/college is based on opinions, so be nice to the teachers

READ the quote again EG, I said based ONLY on opinions. All three of my tricyle motors already know how to charm adults, that is how the little turds are at the lake tubing and I am in the office pretending to work.

Nemont

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Nemont:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> If we are to subsidize somebody's lifestyle, I think it should be mine

So you would like to be on welfare of some sort also?

Nemont </font>[/QUOTE]In a heartbeat....

Ol' man Simplot is one of the largest Welfare Ranchers around, he and sure seems to have a nice fleet of Airplanes, Vacation Homes, and Penthouses...

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Nemont:
Also in interest of fairness why don't you provide one reason that any hunter would vote for Kerry.

Nemont

Can I have some time on that one???

He has said he will appoint a Salmon Czar. And he does fish on the Little Wood River for Trout..

 

[Nemont]

He has said he will appoint a Salmon Czar. And he does fish on the Little Wood River for Trout

So what, Clinton appointed a drug czar and didn't solve the illegal drug problem.

Democrats offer takes on issues of Idaho interest

Sen. John Kerry would appoint a salmon czar who would answer directly to him and his vice president if he´s elected president.

But neither he nor his chief opponent for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. John Edwards, are willing to support studies of breaching four dams on the Snake River to aid the fish. Their positions came in response to questions asked of the candidates by The Idaho Statesman..

Kerry also offered a comprehensive plan for reviving the nation´s technology center and aiding companies like Boise´s Micron Technology. Edwards, from North Carolina, proposes giving companies that create jobs that stay at home a 10 percent tax cut.

The two men share similar positions on preservation of America´s national parks and immigration. The other candidates running for the Democratic presidential nomination did not respond to our questions in time for publication.

Salmon and dams

Kerry criticized the Bush Administration´s lack of funding for the region´s salmon recovery plan.

But like President George Bush , he said he is not ready to consider removing four dams on the Snake River in Washington that salmon advocates and most fisheries´ biologists say is necessary to restore healthy populations in Idaho.

“ Before we engage in a polarizing debate about dam removal, we should work to restore and improve the salmon´s habitat in the watersheds throughout the Columbia and Snake River Basins,” he said. “We should ensure the harvest of salmon and our hatcheries are properly managed.”

Edwards called for developing programs that protect both salmon and the economy. He did not offer specifics.

“I believe these two goals can be achieved together,” Edwards said.

Roger Singer, Idaho director of the Sierra Club, a national environmental group, said either candidate would do more for salmon than President Bush. Singer said he hopes they will keep an open mind on the dams.

“I hope they´ll stay open minded enough that if the other fixes prove to be insufficient, that they will address the problems created by the four dams on the Snake River,” Singer said.

 

[Ten Bears]

Excuse me FEEBLE minded one, but how many times have I misspelled words?
I (and others here) understand that these outbursts are nothing more then a cry for attention, from a small fish swimming in the big water of life, but please learn to take your medications before coming here. I also understand that you are a moderator, SO WHAT, get over your own self importance.

 

[WH's OutdoorsChick]

WOW, its Getting ugly in here......

Cat Fight

 

[Ithaca 37]

EG, "Upland = Incomplete, I struggle with what is the Root Cause of our Phesant populations going to Zero here. Not sure if it is too many skunks, too many Yotes, a Pesticide, too many subdivisions. Not sure Dubya's role in this Hunting Disaster, but will keep looking for opportunity to blame him."

Upland= F- Chukars, quail, huns, sharptails and sagegrouse have had their habitat destroyed by welfare ranching and Dubya's certainly not doing anything to help that situation. Even rabbits are losing habitat to more well drilling on public lands in WY and CO. Forest grouse suffer from lack of cover where welfare cows graze, etc.

 

[Nemont]

IT,

Still awaiting the proof but as an aside maybe you can help with why a hunter would vote for Kerry.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, Here's some. I blame Bush for the increased wells. This is in the "Battle brewing over sagegrouse...." topic.

"Six years ago, the huge Jonah field south of Pinedale had 58 producing gas wells. Today, there are 600, and a federal Bureau of Land Management proposal calls for 3,100 more. That would average out to a gas well every 10 acres......"

Here's more:

"After barely more than 60 days in office, President Bush has placed a distinctive mark on U.S. environmental policy, rolling back campaign promises on clean air, reversing Clinton administration initiatives on drinking water, and promoting new oil exploration in previously protected regions.........."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/environment/jan-june01/bushenv_3-29.html

All those actions are bad for wildlife, of course.

Here's more:
"On bigger environmental issues, Bush's record is mixed.


Bush pushed unsuccessfully to allow oil drilling in a part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
He pushed unsuccessfully to allow oil drilling in a part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Yet he is moving to stop drilling plans off beaches in Florida, where his brother, Gov. Jeb Bush, is vying for re-election.

Earlier this year, the head of the EPA's Office of Regulatory Enforcement resigned, complaining that the agency was "fighting a White House that seems determined to weaken the rules we are trying to enforce."

Bush opposed tighter fuel-mileage limits on SUVs and trucks, but supports more money to research hydrogen and fuel-cell vehicles for the future....."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/16/green.century.bush.environment/

As for why a hunter should vote for Kerry. I'm pretty sure a Kerry administration would not be as bad on environmental issues as Bush has been. They might even undo some of the damage he's done to environmental laws and regulations. His administration has been circumventing them in any way they can.