Go hunt Landowner Tags

[Bambistew]

This is certainly not the trend westwide, but below are CO numbers since 2011 (I had these extracted because it's my personal baseline). But we are just one wrong contact with domestic sheep from being right back to 2011.

View attachment 247089

A 10% increase in 10 years. Not bad. MT is probably a 30% decrease? Maybe more? Alaska is nearly 50% down. Those action tags certainly are keeping us afloat. can you really prove that the efforts of the NGOs are responsible for this increase or is it more than likely just coincidence? Just saying, 10% is more or less a natural fluctuation.

IMO there is a big difference between a raffle tag vs a wealth/auction tag. Those who buy raffle tickets have an equal chance. Those who purchase the auction tag, are stepping to the front of the line in the name of "conservation." How many of them would donate that same amount money just because? Zero or nearly zero? If they can't kill something they aren't interested.

My personal opinion is not a popular one and I don't care. I don't make money of wildlife and never will even though I've been approached to do so many times via guiding. Where you draw the line is up to you. I don't support NGOs that pimp wildlife.

If you can't see the difference between an action tag, selling a "land ownwer" tag and selling flies for catching steelhead, I'm not sure what to say. I'll never give a dime to W$F until they stop pimping wildlife. BHA is a joke. You really believe they are really making a difference vs exploiting wildlwildlife... you and I will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Salmonchaser]

I was surprised to read above that a land owner tag in New Mexico was good for the region. Oregon, my understanding is, the tags are good only on the property itself. If some one wants to pony up the $ to hunt a ranch and no where else, that keeps him from competing with me. If the ability to sell a few tags gets the landowner hunting the elk or deer perhaps that pushes them back onto public ground, again, kinda helps me out.

 

[WapitiBob]

NM has unit wide and ranch only vouchers.

 

[TheTone]

Jay Scott was there and constantly referred to himself arrogantly in the third person, as in ‘Jay Scott would never do things that way!’

I’d like to see Jay hunt a bottom end otc elk tag someday. I’d expect comedy and complaining about the lack of 350+ Bulls. Says a lot that someone can be an elk “expert” only hunting high end AZ tags and well managed private ranches

 

[Bigjay73]

I was surprised to read above that a land owner tag in New Mexico was good for the region. Oregon, my understanding is, the tags are good only on the property itself. If some one wants to pony up the $ to hunt a ranch and no where else, that keeps him from competing with me. If the ability to sell a few tags gets the landowner hunting the elk or deer perhaps that pushes them back onto public ground, again, kinda helps me out.

Colorado also has unit wide LO tags

 

[Salmonchaser]

Colorado also has unit wide LO tags

That paints a different picture, how hard would it be to change regulations limiting landowner tags to the specific property?

 

[Bigjay73]

That paints a different picture, how hard would it be to change regulations limiting landowner tags to the specific property?

About as difficult as opening up all state trust land to public hunting, pretty darn hard.

 

[Pagosa]

I’ve never seen Freshtracks, but did watch several of the older OYA. I had several misgivings when I seen the video of Randy Newberg and his son hunting with Buzz in unit 7 of WY. I know they say they were friends, but I couldn’t handle hanging with Buzz for more than two minutes by the arrogant comments he has made. I don’t care how big of elk he could lead me too. If he is the chapter leader of BHA, no thanks. Secondly if someone is promoting self-guided, oya hunts, I would be hard pressed to believe they are hiring guides to prescout areas/animals. Hopefully that is not true.
Back on topic, Landowner tags should be just that for the landowner or immediate family. It’s bs that they can be sold, exchanged, outfitted, etc. Groups like the bighorn society seem to do a lot of hard work for wildlife.
I also think raffles, super hunts issued through conservation organizations or the state wildlife are good. The auction tags just allow some rich person to move ahead of everyone else.

 

[FI460]

I hope you're all writing your game commissions and state legislatures since you're so bothered by this practice.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I've been to quite a few commission meetings and season setting meetings and this hasn't come up frequently.

 

[BuzzH]

I somewhat agree with Bambistew, that I'm tired of seeing some of the top public tags going out the door for not much in return in regard to commission and governors tags. IN spite of all the money raised sheep continue to tank, mule deer continue to tank, etc.

Yes, they raise a lot of money, yes there are worthy projects that can be done with the money.

But, when you see tag numbers declining with the massive money coming in for say 7 sheep tags in Wyoming, one has to wonder if its worth sacrificing those tags?

I get it that sometimes its tough to "see" the good the tags do or perhaps the good they've done so that things aren't worse, or that we're slowing the decline.

I get it, so I very reluctantly support some raising of funds for specific projects that benefit wildlife via commission and governors tags.

However, here's where I think things get cloudy, and that's when the funds are used for operating costs within an organization. When those tags are used to keep the doors open by NGO's, pay salaries, etc....well, I don't agree with that.

I can tell you for a fact that many NGO's in Wyoming rely on those tags for paying salaries and with no string attached for Commission tags, it happens a lot. In my experience, when that happens, those NGO's hamstring themselves into not representing wildlife, access, etc. of their members, but doing the bidding of those controlling the tags.

In other words, if an NGO rocks the boat in support of public access, wildlife, etc. that a commissioner doesn't agree with, you get no tag. That's BS and at that point the tags become counter-productive to what they are intended for. Classic example is Pete Dube promising BHA a tag (100% of the funds being used on wildlife projects in his commission area), then pulling it last minute, because he and his rancher buddies disagree with our support of 4 hunters from Missouri crossing a corner.

That's dangerous and counterproductive to taking positive positions for the wildlife and the average hunter on issues that may conflict with those giving the commission tags. IMO, I believe 100% of the funds raised should HAVE to be used for a specific project need. Not to pay salaries of NGO's, not to pay administration costs of NGO's, not to shore up a library in Carbon County, not to fund a 4-H program, etc.

Make no mistake these tags have morphed into a quid-pro-quo for those issuing the tags and much has been lost in regard to the argument about how much "good" these tags really do. That's heading down a very murky and dangerous path. A position on an issue should NEVER be compromised by the threat of losing a governors or commission tag to sell. If you're relying on a tag to keep your doors open as an NGO, I'd suggest you're being manipulated and hamstrung from doing your job correctly and unduly influenced by those giving the tag.

Even the WGF Department is being influenced by these tags, and not in a positive way all the time either.

Like I said, I'm a reluctant, very reluctant supporter of these tags, but IMO, there needs to be more over-sight and tougher restrictions on them.

 

[BuzzH]

About as difficult as opening up all state trust land to public hunting, pretty darn hard.

Anything worth doing is usually never easy. It takes time, pressure, and a handful of truly dedicated people to see things change.

It happens, all the time.

I've always been shocked that CO hasn't taken on a serious campaign on the State lands issue...

 

[Oak]

Anything worth doing is usually never easy. It takes time, pressure, and a handful of truly dedicated people to see things change.

It happens, all the time.

I've always been shocked that CO hasn't taken on a serious campaign on the State lands issue...

Probably too late as CPW capitulated and started paying to lease it on a parcel by parcel basis.

 

[BenInMT]

Fish are wildlife, so is my buddy Shane who guides steelhead in Lewiston evil because he’s making money off public wildlife?

Your buddy who guides for the clinging remnants of wild steelhead in Lewiston is in fact king douchenozzle number 1. He surely will see those fish go extinct before he stops helping geriatric ****s get their grip and grin with a B run.

 

[Buckbrush]

I'm 58 and remember growing up in Utah the news would have stories of culling elk off private fields. Constant conflict with ranchers and farmers over grazing on private property.

Utah's CWMU program changed that dynamic and wildlife is now accepted and protected because it provides revenue to landowners. Public gets access to millions of acres and some great opportunities we would otherwise never experience.

Wildlife rightly public property of each state and managed based on how citizens determine. Enabling property owners to make money from wildlife on their property is fair tradeoff if the state has mechanism to gain public access for hunting.

As for BHA; they are the Greta Thunberg of professed enlightened hunters and anglers.

I have a problem with the way Utah handle's their cwmu program. I waited too long to purchase a general season elk tag because I did not draw any thing. No elk or cow,deer, pronghorn nothing okay my fault for waiting. But I used to be able to draw a deer tag every year then it was every other year. Same thing with cow elk. Last cow elk tag took me 8 years to draw. Why beacuse they gave the land owners more than 50% of the cow tags. I asked the fish and game about this and they said they had nothing to do with that decision it was the legislation that has the biggest ears to the landowners. So they can sell these tags for 1500 to 2000 dollars. That's on top of my tax dollars funding subsides for crop damage.
Now I know Utah is dealing with massive population boom. But still it seems to me they are turning hunting into a rich man's game of trophy's controlled by the land owners for money instead of a way to fill the freezer for meat to help support ones family. That's the way I always looked at hunting not that shooting a very large buck or bull wasn't always on everyone's mind's. I think if the farmers are crying so hard from crop damage they would sell the tags for a lot less then 10Grand for a bull.

 

[OriginalOscar]

I have a problem with the way Utah handle's their cwmu program. I waited too long to purchase a general season elk tag because I did not draw any thing. No elk or cow,deer, pronghorn nothing okay my fault for waiting. But I used to be able to draw a deer tag every year then it was every other year. Same thing with cow elk. Last cow elk tag took me 8 years to draw. Why beacuse they gave the land owners more than 50% of the cow tags. I asked the fish and game about this and they said they had nothing to do with that decision it was the legislation that has the biggest ears to the landowners. So they can sell these tags for 1500 to 2000 dollars. That's on top of my tax dollars funding subsides for crop damage.
Now I know Utah is dealing with massive population boom. But still it seems to me they are turning hunting into a rich man's game of trophy's controlled by the land owners for money instead of a way to fill the freezer for meat to help support ones family. That's the way I always looked at hunting not that shooting a very large buck or bull wasn't always on everyone's mind's. I think if the farmers are crying so hard from crop damage they would sell the tags for a lot less then 10Grand for a bull.

Ditto. I was traveling the day spike units went on sale. Got home 11pm that night and sold out!!

 

[Buckbrush]

Ditto. I was traveling the day spike units went on sale. Got home 11pm that night and sold out!!

I know. Crazy used to have till Sept before any bull sold out.
And had leftover spike.

 

[Elktrack]

Your buddy who guides for the clinging remnants of wild steelhead in Lewiston is in fact king douchenozzle number 1. He surely will see those fish go extinct before he stops helping geriatric ****s get their grip and grin with a B run.

Might wanna double check your info.
Can’t keep wild steelhead.
Steelhead guides aren’t having a negative impact on the population.
There’s far more pressure from the tribes than sport fishermen IMO. Take a cruise through Riggins when they’re down there scooping em out and selling them on the side of the road.

 

[Big Fin]

Prescouted Randy’s animals for some of the Fresh Tracks shows. Oddly enough, that was never mentioned on the shows.

Please tell more. Who is this person who did this "pre-scouting?" What state? What hunt? What year?

 

[TheTone]

Might wanna double check your info.
Can’t keep wild steelhead.
Steelhead guides aren’t having a negative impact on the population.
There’s far more pressure from the tribes than sport fishermen IMO. Take a cruise through Riggins when they’re down there scooping em out and selling them on the side of the road.

They’re generally scooping and selling chinook. Tribal pressure on steelhead is increasing though.

Regardless of keeping wild fish guides do kinda make a living off fishing on them. Incidental take and catch and release mortality isn’t estimated to be high and is within IDFG noaa permitting however.

 

[Big Fin]

Just in from Wyoming and running on a few hours of sleep. I'll try to answer some of the points in the thread.

As to GOHUNT selling landowner tags, I would contact them and voice the concern.

As for us "needing" landowner tags to film content. We don't "need" them. We've used them when they are unit-wide and allow us to hunt public land. Most years we have more tags than we have capacity to film. In our fifteen years of filming, our guests/sweepstakes winners taken five New Mexico bull elk on unit-wide landowner tags. We've aired two New Mexico pronghorn taken under the old NM pronghorn landowner system and one Nevada pronghorn on a landowner tag. This year we had eighteen hunts on our board when we include me/crew/close friends, none of which included landowners tags. We will only film about twelve of those. We can easily get our content done if all landowner tag systems went away.

I think a separate thread on landowner tags would be a valuable discussion for Hunt Talk. It would be a good to discuss whether or not the Trustees of the Public Trust for that state's wildlife are getting a good deal for the beneficiaries (citizens of that state) in exchange for the method of landowner tag program they have put in place. Goals of the program and whether the goals are being met/not met? Does the program result in more wildlife, more access, higher objectives, etc.? And if so, or if not, at what cost to the Corpus (wildlife) of the Public Trust? Then add in programs that go above and beyond landowner tags, such as Utah's CWMU and Colorado's RFW?

I think another good thread would be the points made about all the auction tags, how the proceeds get used, does it benefit wildlife, whether it is a net benefit/detriment to hunting and conservation, etc. What are the benefits derived, and at what cost for opportunity from the public? What transparency exists so the public knows what happens with the funds raised? How many are too many, if any at all?

Both of those items above are great topics for the Hunt Talk forum.

As for BHA's association with GOHUNT, that can probably be a question asked of every non-profit and every sponsor those non-profit groups have. If folks have concerns or questions, they should direct them to the non-profit in question and see what the answers are.

As for my association with GOHUNT, I have worked with them since they started. They have a great product that saves me a ton of time, makes my research process a lot easier, and gives me tools for my style of E-scouting that I use heavily. And yes, they do contribute a ton of money, products, and employee time to conservation efforts, with BHA being just one of the groups they support. I will continue to use their products and promote them. I believe that anyone interested in hunting multiple western states will save a lot of time and be more effective when using GOHUNT products.

Gotta run, but I'll drop in later today and see if there are more questions.