Biden vs Gun Owners

[longbow51]

I agree this is more of a social problem than a "gun problem", hence my call for conservatives to address these root causes.

And, I am not calling you a racist personally, but more broadly when these three stereotypes are used to describe the problem, they are typically directed at black folks being at the heart of the criticism. But as we have seen the meth craze and rural disintegration over the last 20 years we have similar rates of unwed mothers, drug use, crime etc in poor white communities. Yet, you interesting didn't mention terms that might be more commonly used for white cultural problems - violent and misogynistic video games, American job-killing hedge funds, an odd celebration of the confederacy, hero-worship of groups like the Proud Boys, etc.

This is not a black/white issue, it is not a Detroit/WV issue. There are problems across races and across geographies, and as you note they are human problems. The only question is will we be part of solving it, or will we leave it to others (and complain about their choices)?

Ah, yes, when all else fails, play the race card. If you take any honest look at crime statistics, you will see that if you remove inner-city shootings, the USA compares very well with other countries. As to Texas and California having the most crime, hopefully a college level course talks about crime rates, not just raw numbers, but depending upon the bent of the professor certainly wouldn't bet on it. And I don't recall any Proud Boys or "odd celebrators of the confederacy" leading to the weekend death toll that is a regularity in Chicago.

However, you argue by the minute, and I don't.

And, I thought you and Lamb were fixing tort law?

 

[Wildabeest]

Studies have shown driving with a cell phone is as bad as driving under the influence ! Hence all the cell phone / driving laws !

I’ll assume your last sentence was sarcasm. It appears the same states pushing for gun restrictions are the ones who also care about driving safety...

 

[Pmacc60]

I’ll assume your last sentence was sarcasm. It appears the same states pushing for gun restrictions are the ones who also care about driving safety...

View attachment 174766

No sarcasm just the fact , having my cell phone and using it while driving takes my attention from the rd ! Not good ! Using my cell phone while not driving or sitting on the rd is not causing a driving issue! Using my gun carry around to intimidate or shoot others because the are selling drugs on my turf not good , my gun at home or in the field chasing game .... not committing murder ! Unless your from PETA .

 

[Ben Lamb]

If terrorist groups like BLM, antifa and proud boys were gonna machine gun fight wouldn’t they be semi auto fighting right now?

They're currently parading around the entire nation with AR's and they've been tied to several incidents of gun violence in the last few years. How does adding an M2 to the mix help?

I just don’t understand how being poor in a country where it’s hard to starve to death leads someone to be such a piece of shit that they would pull out a gun and shoot another human.

I just don't see why anyone who hasn't had the experiences in which the scenario above is a plausible outcome in terms of finding a better life, or at least one without such grinding poverty, would make such a statement. Again, it doesn't matter which impoverished community you come from, at some point we have to realize that the current system is just recylcling the same outcomes and even as well meaning as they are, do nothing to provide that path to the middle class that we should be finding.

If your choices are a job that pays minimum wage and doesn't even get you to a place where ends meet, versus thousands of easy dollars that can come with a cheap gun, and you're looking at a family with nothing in the cupboard and nothing in the bank, what would you do?

It's like friends in the North who can't possibly fathom that poor people in the south don't have insulated houses built to winter codes can't just light a fire in the wood stove & cook up some elk. The situational awareness that comes from empathy & living in someone else's shoes can be a wonderful approach to understanding the issue and trying to find a meaningful solution to national crisis as poverty & lack of access to mental health - the two top issues related to gun violence.

 

[406dn]

Studies have shown driving with a cell phone is as bad as driving under the influence ! Hence all the cell phone / driving laws !

Yep, and those deaths total fewer than gun deaths.

 

[Wildabeest]

No sarcasm just the fact

So then is it safe to assume that you are suggesting states should do more to regulate cell phone use while driving? Or is it your opinion that nothing should be done and we simply deal with the consequences? Serious, not rhetorical, question.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If you take any honest look at crime statistics, you will see that if you remove inner-city shootings, the USA compares very well with other countries.

Nope - even white use of guns in crime is higher than other 1st world countries - but I would be happy to look at your "honest crime statistics" and be proven wrong. @wllm1313 can help you with the pretty graphs

 

[VikingsGuy]

Ah, yes, when all else fails, play the race card.

Nope, I just responded to your subtle playing of that suit. And then you doubled down in your response. I am getting the full picture now.

 

[shrapnel]

Yep, and those deaths total fewer than gun deaths.

Which deaths are you referring to?

 

[lodgepoleJoe]

I agree this is more of a social problem than a "gun problem", hence my call for conservatives to address these root causes.

And, I am not calling you a racist personally, but more broadly when these three stereotypes are used to describe the problem, they are typically directed at black folks being at the heart of the criticism. But as we have seen the meth craze and rural disintegration over the last 20 years we have similar rates of unwed mothers, drug use, crime etc in poor white communities. Yet, you interestingly didn't mention terms that might be more commonly used for white cultural problems - violent and misogynistic video games, American job-killing hedge funds, an odd celebration of the confederacy, hero-worship of groups like the Proud Boys, etc.

This is not a black/white issue, it is not a Detroit/WV issue. There are problems across races and across geographies, and as you note they are human problems. The only question is will we be part of solving it, or will we leave it to others (and complain about their choices)?

I didn't see anything about race in longbows post but then I'm not WOKE either.

 

[Pmacc60]

So then is it safe to assume that you are suggesting states should do more to regulate cell phone use while driving? Or is it your opinion that nothing should be done and we simply deal with the consequences? Serious, not rhetorical, question.

States have done things to curtail driving accidents while using cell phones. Same with gun laws , we have been inundated with gun laws here in Md and Baltimore is probably the most dangerous city in America . These laws are only geared at the lawful ownership in the State ! So we as the citizens of Maryland who want our 2A rights , us who follow the rules , us that aren’t going to kill you or rape or rob you get another law imposed so what we won’t use our guns in crime ? Please

 

[Wildabeest]

States have done things to curtail driving accidents while using cell phones. Same with gun laws , we have been inundated with gun laws here in Md and Baltimore is probably the most dangerous city in America . These laws are only geared at the lawful ownership in the State ! So we as the citizens of Maryland who want our 2A rights , us who follow the rules , us that aren’t going to kill you or rape or rob you get another law imposed so what we won’t use our guns in crime ? Please

You dodged the question, but that’s OK. Carry on.

 

[406dn]

Which deaths are you referring to?

View attachment 174780

And drunk drivers are responsible for about 40% of the vehicle total. So, roughly 14,000,, less than half of firearm deaths.

Drunk and Distracted Driving Statistics for 2019 - Arrive Alive Tour

The Arrive Alive Tour is the number one DUI/DWI driving simulator in the country. We educate the public about the dangers of texting while driving, drugged driving with our marijuana simulator, and an alcohol impaired driving simulation.

arrivealivetour.com

 

[DouglasR]

If your choices are a job that pays minimum wage and doesn't even get you to a place where ends meet, versus thousands of easy dollars that can come with a cheap gun, and you're looking at a family with nothing in the cupboard and nothing in the bank, what would you do?

Aren’t you some form of a politician irl?
obviously you’re gonna win this debate.
but,

I don’t think the scenario you mentioned above really exists.
There’s always a way to put food in the cupboard.

If you choose gun violence as a way to make a living you’re morally compromised and have no place in our society.

I understand the drugs, I understand a lot of other crimes, but I don’t understand shooting at each other.

 

[Pmacc60]

Nope - even white use of guns in crime is higher than other 1st world countries - but I would be happy to look at your "honest crime statistics" and be proven wrong. @wllm1313 can help you with the pretty graphs

Yes VG that is true but a country like The United Kingdom has very restrictive gun laws but has many more hot robberies ( robberies while a person is home ) than in the US .

 

[406dn]

I understand the drugs, I understand a lot of other crimes, but I don’t understand shooting at each other.

While you and I can't fathom what it would take to kill someone, it is obvious that some number of people can and do.

 

[Pmacc60]

So then is it safe to assume that you are suggesting states should do more to regulate cell phone use while driving? Or is it your opinion that nothing should be done and we simply deal with the consequences? Serious, not rhetorical, question.

Sorry yes I think states should do more to regulate cell phone use. We all use them and if we use them while driving then you are going to cause an accident or at least chances are much higher that you will do so! I don’t however want a ban on cell phones in your car or to ban cell phones altogether , I believe most of us are responsible !

 

[Pmacc60]

While you and I can't fathom what it would take to kill someone, it is obvious that some number of people can and do.

That’s the point ..... you do have to because this world is full of people who will kill you ! So if you find your the person who’s life is in danger because someone has decided you are going to be their victim , your just going to roll over ? Do you own a gun 406 ? I don’t know the answer to this question?

 

[VikingsGuy]

I didn't see anything about race in longbows post but then I'm not WOKE either.

If you don't think "baby mammas", "rap" and "bad behaving millionaire athletes" aren't racial stereotypes, then you are either disingenuous in your objection or you need to get out more.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Aren’t you some form of a politician irl?
obviously you’re gonna win this debate.
but,

I don’t think the scenario you mentioned above really exists.
There’s always a way to put food in the cupboard.

If you choose gun violence as a way to make a living you’re morally compromised and have no place in our society.

I understand the drugs, I understand a lot of other crimes, but I don’t understand shooting at each other.

Do you like the old 1930's gangster movies? Gang members shooting each other is hardly news.