Biden vs Gun Owners

[noharleyyet]

If you don't think "baby mammas", "rap" and "bad behaving millionaire athletes" aren't racial stereotypes, then you are either disingenuous in your objection or you need to get out more.

Are they mischaracterizations or words you don't like, or words the media/left have cancelled for pandering...or all.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Aren’t you some form of a politician irl?
obviously you’re gonna win this debate.
but,

I don’t think the scenario you mentioned above really exists.
There’s always a way to put food in the cupboard.

If you choose gun violence as a way to make a living you’re morally compromised and have no place in our society.

I understand the drugs, I understand a lot of other crimes, but I don’t understand shooting at each other.

No. I've never been elected to anything. I've spent 20 years working in politics though. I spent those years representing people like you in state houses & in congress, as we fought for true multiple use of public lands, better wildlife laws and less politics in conservation. It made me question what I believe often, and it helped me see issues from multiple viewpoints, which is critical if you want to actually solve problems, rather than perpetuate them.

I agree on the moral compass though. Sometimes you have to look at what produced such citizens, rather than just go skin deep and blame the person who failed rather than all of us who failed them.

I'd challenge you to go live in the south side of Chicago with no car, education or employment opportunities within a couple of miles of where you live. Do it with 3 kids and no support, and do it for less than $10/hr. Or go live in a shitty trailer in WV up a holler, with the same situation.

 

[lodgepoleJoe]

If you don't think "baby mammas", "rap" and "bad behaving millionaire athletes" aren't racial stereotypes, then you are either disingenuous in your objection or you need to get out more.

I should have known better than to jump into this cesspool but just because you see race in everything doesn't mean I have to. Simple answer - No you can't have my guns! I'm out.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Are they mischaracterizations or words you don't like, or words the media/left have cancelled for pandering...or all.

No, they've always had a racial charge to them, like redneck, or trailer trash or meth addict.

But bad behaving millionaire athletes is also Tom Brady's yacht's name.

 

[noharleyyet]

No, they've always had a racial charge to them, like redneck, or trailer trash or meth addict.

But bad behaving millionaire athletes is also Tom Brady's yacht's name.

He prolly wanted to name it Maxine's Family Business...but it was taken.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Are they mischaracterizations or words you don't like, or words the media/left have cancelled for pandering...or all.

I call BS on this.

Rates of illegitimacy for poor folks is very similar black or white but baby mammas is clearly directed at blacks; white rappers, heavy metal, video games and movies are just as bad as "rap" so why not include them, and in general millionaires behaving badly is much more a white thing but adding "athlete" signals it is about blacks.

If you really don't think when a person uses those labels and reads those words they are picturing a black person in their mind, then I don't know what to say. And you agree that these terms invoke that stereotype, but believe these issues are just black issues, then you need to spend some time in poor white meth-riddled communities.

 

[Hatchie Dawg]

Sometimes I think there is no hope for this country. If the folks on the left think we will solve the culture problems (which lead to certain inevitable outcomes) facing the black community, inner city and other wise, by more government programs and preferential treatment they are sadly mistaken. Same could be said for certain rural white or Native American groups that are struggling. It seems such programs tend to have an opposite effect, those unintended consequences of good intentions which flirt with the establishment of permanent underclasses. There seems to be a fairly consistent human response with dependence and victim-hood mentality regardless of race or color which cripples human potential. Shelby Steele's "White Guilt", Walter Williams' "Race and Economics", Thomas Sowell's "Discrimination and Disparities" , then Heather McDonald's "War on Cops" provide elegant fact based counterbalance to a sea of leftist scholarship and thought regarding many of the topics discussed in this thread. I highly recommend the books to anyone interested in balancing viewpoints. It's unfortunate we cannot love people or peoples out of their problems but that is the case.
HD

 

[sigpros]

If you don't think "baby mammas", "rap" and "bad behaving millionaire athletes" aren't racial stereotypes, then you are either disingenuous in your objection or you need to get out more.

In all fairness there has been a lot of Proud boys, 3 percent, Trumpster, and redneck talk in this thread too so it seems the stereotypes are going both ways.

And if we up the age of firearms ownership up to 21 then we have to move the voting age up too? I mean if you aren’t responsible enough to buy a beer, play blackjack, or own a gun there you sure aren’t responsible enough to vote.

And again WHY are people not to be trusted with firearms until 21 when my grandpa could buy a rifle at 10 at the local hardware store? How did a firearm become the problem? People not being held responsible for their actions and everyone getting a trophy has had a lot to do with where we are as a country. These kids today don’t know how to overcome failure and adversity.

 

[Nick87]

but baby mammas is clearly directed at blacks

"athlete" signals it is about blacks

Give me a break.

 

[TheJason]

I didn't see anything about race in longbows post but then I'm not WOKE either.

Using this term in the simple pejorative sense is as intellectually lazy as thinking one has to agree with every sense of wokeness.

By proudly claiming you aren't "woke", how would you expect someone of differing views on gun control to see the inherent racial disparities created by legal and financial hurdles to gun ownership?

 

[TheJason]

In all fairness there has been a lot of Proud boys, 3 percent, Trumpster, and redneck talk in this thread too so it seems the stereotypes are going both ways.

Don't forget Tactical Chad.

 

[sigpros]

Don't forget Tactical Chad.

I didn’t mention him because he scares the crap out of me.

 

[noharleyyet]

I call BS on this.

Rates of illegitimacy for poor folks is very similar black or white but baby mammas is clearly directed at blacks; white rappers, heavy metal, video games and movies are just as bad as "rap" so why not include them, and in general millionaires behaving badly is much more a white thing but adding "athlete" signals it is about blacks.

If you really don't think when a person uses those labels and reads those words they are picturing a black person in their mind, then I don't know what to say. And you agree that these terms invoke that stereotype, but believe these issues are just black issues, then you need to spend some time in poor white meth-riddled communities.

Alright, since BS is an allowed euphemism, let me send you a blanket icon...; )

 

[TheJason]

I didn’t mention him because he scares the crap out of me.

Actually, from what I've seen Tactical Chad knows no racial boundaries. The common link to bring racial and ethnic groups together might very well be a Bushmaster AR15, an Uncle Mike's drop leg with a 9mm, and a Molon Labe hat with a Punisher logo on the back.

 

[noharleyyet]

Actually, from what I've seen Tactical Chad knows no racial boundaries. The common link to bring racial and ethnic groups together might very well be a Bushmaster AR15, an Uncle Mike's drop leg with a 9mm, and a Molon Labe hat with a Punisher logo on the back.

I'd post the the Tyson that's rathist, but apparently that's racist.

 

[406dn]

That’s the point ..... you do have to because this world is full of people who will kill you ! So if you find your the person who’s life is in danger because someone has decided you are going to be their victim , your just going to roll over ? Do you own a gun 406 ? I don’t know the answer to this question?

Yes, I own several, no hand guns but plenty of long guns.

I have never, as a rule, feared for my physical safety. I understand some worry about their safety.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sometimes I think there is no hope for this country. If the folks on the left think we will solve the culture problems (which lead to certain inevitable outcomes) facing the black community, inner city and other wise, by more government programs and preferential treatment they are sadly mistaken. Same could be said for certain rural white or Native American groups that are struggling. It seems such programs tend to have an opposite effect, those unintended consequences of good intentions which flirt with the establishment of permanent underclasses. There seems to be a fairly consistent human response with dependence and victim-hood mentality regardless of race or color which cripples human potential. Shelby Steele's "White Guilt", Walter Williams' "Race and Economics", Thomas Sowell's "Discrimination and Disparities" , then Heather McDonald's "War on Cops" provide elegant fact based counterbalance to a sea of leftist scholarship and thought regarding many of the topics discussed in this thread. I highly recommend the books to anyone interested in balancing viewpoints. It's unfortunate we cannot love people or peoples out of their problems but that is the case.
HD

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll check them out!

I think the bolded part is exactly right. We've created entire cultures that only know that life, and not what a good paying job can provide. Entire generations have grown up in poverty, and that's on all Americans for not demanding better from our politicians, while still trying to provide the necessary means of survival.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I'd post the the Tyson that's rathist, but apparently that's racist.

Nope - apparently we can still make fun of speech impediments - I don't think that becomes cancelled until 2024 - when we will be forced to surrender all copies of one of my favorite movies - A Fish Called Wanda

 

[Pmacc60]

Sometimes I think there is no hope for this country. If the folks on the left think we will solve the culture problems (which lead to certain inevitable outcomes) facing the black community, inner city and other wise, by more government programs and preferential treatment they are sadly mistaken. Same could be said for certain rural white or Native American groups that are struggling. It seems such programs tend to have an opposite effect, those unintended consequences of good intentions which flirt with the establishment of permanent underclasses. There seems to be a fairly consistent human response with dependence and victim-hood mentality regardless of race or color which cripples human potential. Shelby Steele's "White Guilt", Walter Williams' "Race and Economics", Thomas Sowell's "Discrimination and Disparities" , then Heather McDonald's "War on Cops" provide elegant fact based counterbalance to a sea of leftist scholarship and thought regarding many of the topics discussed in this thread. I highly recommend the books to anyone interested in balancing viewpoints. It's unfortunate we cannot love people or peoples out of their problems but that is the case.
HD

Man that was like a lightning bolt out of the blue . Very well said !

 

[DouglasR]

Or go live in a shitty trailer in WV up a holler, with the same situation.

I’m like one generation removed from this and I’ve got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel with life right now and could end up right back there at any moment.
I’ve also worked around a lot of people like this for over 12 years and like you, it often makes me question what I believe.

the hard thing about debating with you and @VikingsGuy is that you guys have actual degrees and do this for a living.

Since you guys are listening tho, as a representative of the lsu community I don’t want any more gun laws.

happy Sunday.