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USO's latest threat to Arizona

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AZ402

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Cottonwood,Arizona
James R. Scarantino
Attorney At Law
714 Montc1aire NE · Albuquerque, NM 87110
(505) 250-8754 · (505) 232-4515 Fax



December 22, 2004
Duane L. Shroufe
Director
Arizona Game and Fish Department
2221 W. Greenway Road
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399

Re: Proposed License/Tag Fee Ceiling Increases

Dear Director Shroufe:

I write on behalf of United States Outfitters and its many nonresident clients. We wish to share our views on the proposed statutory increases to the license/tag fee ceilings. While we understand that the proposal is phrased merely as an increase in the fee ceilings, we cannot overlook the fact that once the ceilings are raised by the Legislature, the Commission by rule making may then set the fees at any level within that range. Therefore, we view the request to increase the fee ceilings as a request by the Commission for authority to at some point in time increase the actual fees to the maximum level authorized by the Legislature.

The growing real disparity between resident and nonresident fees as reflected in the proposals is cause for great concern. Nonresidents already are being unfairly burdened by having to pay much more for the same opportunity to hunt game. This unfairness is made even worse by the fact that the majority of those hunting opportunities take place on federal public lands, lands owned and supported equally by all Americans, regardless of their place of residence. There are limits to the extent to which nonresidents can be expected to tolerate and overlook being subjected to discrimination. The proposed fee increases exceed the limits of tolerance.

Under the proposal a nonresident could be charged $775 for the same bull elk hunt for which, at most, a resident would only be charged $150. In the case of a premium bull elk tag, nonresidents could be charged as much as $3200, compared to only $350 for residents. Further examples of outrageous disparities are found throughout the proposed fee ceiling table being circulated for comments, including but not limited to the proposals concerning deer, premium deer, antelope and bighorn sheep license/tag fees.

We also wish to object to the fact that the spread between nonresident and resident could be increasing. For instance, currently nonresidents pay five times more for an antelope tag than residents. Under the proposal, nonresidents could be paying 7 times as much.

Duane L. Shroufe
December 22, 2004
Page Two


Under the current fee structure, nonresidents pay 5.13 times as much as residents for a
bighorn sheep tag. The proposal could increase this differential to a factor of 8.96. Nonresidents may currently purchase Class G General licenses for 4.45 times as much as the resident rate. Under the proposal, they could have to pay as much as 5.3 times for the same license. And, by way of one more example, currently residents pay 4.03 times as much as residents for a Class F Combination license. Under the proposal, they will have to pay nearly $100 more, whereas residents would at most face only a $16 additional levy.

The sheer difference in the amount that could be charged residents versus nonresidents is what makes the proposals unacceptable. There is no rational basis for the disparities. The true costs to society of a bull elk hunt, for example, are not reflected in the amount that residents could be charged. The same holds true for other species. Furthermore, it does not cost hundreds or thousands of dollars more to administer a nonresident deer, bull elk or premium bull elk hunt than it costs to administer similar resident hunts. The only plausible explanation for the differential is to (a) force nonresidents to increase their subsidy of resident hunting on federal public lands and elsewhere in Arizona and (b) to intentionally discriminate against nonresidents in access to hunting opportunities.

The disparities are so extreme we believe they are also intended as a means of defying the District Court's decision in Montova v. Shroufe. There exist many recorded declarations, including statements from the Commission, that nonresident fees would be raised to punitive levels as another means of excluding nonresidents and also retaliating against nonresidents for daring to successfully vindicate their federal constitutional rights.

Even under the United States Supreme Court decision in Baldwin v. Montana Game and Fish Commission, there are limits to the degree to which nonresidents may be subjected to discriminatory fee structures. As I need not remind you, in light of the Ninth Circuit's ruling in Conservation Force v. Manning, nonresidents can challenge Arizona's discriminatory fees under Commerce Clause strict scrutiny. Arizona would have to prove that it had no other means to serve its legitimate purposes of maintaining resident hunting opportunity and conserving wildlife except to charge the precise discriminatory fees being charged nonresidents. It would have to demonstrate that no lesser range of nonresident fees would serve those purposes. I do not think I overstate the case when I say that such a burden would be impossible to meet.

Losing a Commerce Clause challenge to discriminatory fee structures would not only expose Arizona to sizable claims for attorney fees, it would also expose Arizona to claims for monetary damages, and certainly refunds with interest to all nonresidents who had paid the discriminatory fee. This would impose additional legal and administrative costs upon the Department that would be better spent in game conservation programs.

Nonresidents already bear a disproportionate share of the costs of game management in Arizona. They do not mind paying more to some reasonable extent. But, as I said when I addressed the Commission in Safford, there are limits to nonresidents' tolerance. The
Duane L. Shroufe
December 22, 2004
Page Three


Commission cannot act unreasonably and expect nonresidents to acquiesce in being mistreated and callously exploited.

I note that in the explanation you have given for the fee ceiling proposals, you point to the fact that license sales fell 16% from 1998through 2003. This drop-off occurred during the period of time the Department was vigorously resisting allowing any more licenses to be sold to nonresidents. To some extent, the Department and Commission must accept responsibility for the fiscal pressures behind the need to raise license sales. Had the Department negotiated a reasonable increase in nonresident access when we first invited settlement in 1997, it likely would not be facing the same fiscal pressures it confronts today. Moreover, if the Department were to factor into its calculations increased sales to nonresidents, at fair rather than punitive license fee levels, I think you would find even less justification for the astronomical ceilings proposed for nonresident licenses. The Department could continue to benefit from nonresident subsidy of resident hunting, without forcing nonresidents to take legal action to protect their rights.

We also strongly believe that residents need to begin to pay more of a fair price for the privilege of hunting big game. There are real costs to preserving habitat and raising a large game animal to maturity. The fair market value of big game hunts is far above what residents are currently paying, or will be paying under the ceiling increase proposals. Making residents realize the true costs of game management will have the salutary result of promoting greater interest in increasing hunting opportunities by conserving more wildlife habitat. The real force driving up the costs of hunting is the conflict between an exploding human population and the need for more wildlife habitat. Nonresidents are not the cause of increased resident hunting fees; they have been and will likely continue to be a moderating force that helps hunting continue to be an affordable activity. Nonresident tolerance for the extent to which they are being exploited is, however, reaching a breaking point, leaving litigation as their only recourse.

We believe the entire proposal should be reconsidered. The Department's needs for expanded funding should be addressed with fairness to nonresidents in mind, as well as adherence to the legal restraints against discriminating against nonresidents in their access to hunting opportunities.

We hope you and the Commission will take these comments into consideration in reformulating your approach to future license fee structures.

Sincerely,


JAMES R. SCARANTINO

From the New Mexico Game and Fish Regulations, 2005-2006


SPECIES RESIDENT FEE NON RESIDENT FEE


Quality Deer Hunt $26.00 $310.00

Quality Mature Bull Elk $69.00 $766.00

Antelope $39.00 $202.00

Bighorn Sheep $99.00 $3016.00


I wonder if that attorney wrote to the New Mexico Game & Fish protesting the outrageous fee difference between residents and non residents?
 
Taulman will not be stopped. Need to start the letter writing campaign again to the legislature, Gov and AG to push them to appeal the original decision to the supremes. This guy will do anything in his power to screw up every state where he sells tags. I don't think we can wait for the results of the Reid bill. The ratios we have proposed are supposed to hold up to legal scrutiny so get 'er done. Sad thing is hunters are only 5% of the population and the rest don't care.
 
I asked our G&F about the legislation and where it stands, here is the response I got.

The legislation you are referring to, SB2978, was introduced by Sen.. Reid of Nevada but was written with the help of a number of western states. Arizona was one of the chief state involved in drafting this legislation. Both Sens. Kyl and McCain are both supportive of this legislation and are working towards a swift passage.

[Anthony Guiles] Thanks your interest in this topic and please do not hesitate to contact us in the future.

Anthony Guiles
Legislative Liaison
Arizona Game and Fish Department
2221 W. Greenway Road
Phoenix, AZ 85023



Off. (602) 789-3280
FAX (602) 789-3299
 
Thanks for the update. I wrote them all several times and am keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Both sides opened a can of worms. AZ should have taken the true 10% cap, USO should have known this would happen. Maybe the 10% will still be an option when both sides swallow some pride, Do you agree it would be a fair compromise?
 
I dont agree with USO and the original lawsuit, even wrote some letters to help the AZ cause, wrote the commission, and the G&F Director.

The thanks I got was the immediate threat by the greedy residents to jack my NR license fees through the roof...catering to USO even more, and all but eliminating the average Joe from ever applying.

USO and the AZ residents deserve each other.
 
buzz is right.. AZ had some of this coming and i know residents in AZ that say the same. Prices are at the breaking point for more than just the common man now.
A true 10% would have been fine, and both sides had good argument even though USO did it under false pretenses.
 
Danr,

You're really not too bright are you?

I dont like what USO did, and I HELPED you and all the other Residents who were getting the shaft as much as I could. I dont want an equal shot at your tags, its not right that I would have an equal shot at them.

I dont want a better (or an equal) chance than you, as a resident, to draw tags in AZ. I want a majority of tags to go to AZ Residents. I want you to hunt as often as you can in AZ, I want the chance to hunt there a time or two in my life.

What I want in return is just having a chance, no matter how long the odds, to MAYBE someday draw a tag in AZ, and being able to afford to apply and purchase a tag. I dont mind paying 5-6 times as much for the tag as a resident, I dont mind supporting your G&F and your wildlife. I dont mind buying a NR hunting license that I dont use every year at a reasonable price.

But, its a pretty tough pill to swallow when the residents flat show NO consideration to the very people that support the most, and care the most, about the wildlife in AZ...all because of of the state someone resides in.

Thats pure crap.

So take your sorry and shove it up your tar star.
 
Buzz and Schmalts-I went to all the meetings and 95% of the hunters there strongly stated that raising NR tag fees was good for USO and bad for hunting. The 10% was fine with all I talked to in the first place. USO knew that only 8% of tags went to NR due to overapplying in quality units and serious underapplying in the majority. There are a bunch of good units yet guys like Taulman focus client apps in the few truly premium areas. I for one thank you for any support you gave on our part. Our G&F obviously saw this as an opportunity to generate revenue which sells well in the legislature and with our dike governor. I hate to see any of this and it has already spread to several other states. This guy is only interested in the bucks and knows that he can appeal to judges and 95% of the public who could care less. Sad stuff.
 
3 Cheers for USO!!!!

I am glad they are looking out for my best interests, and to think they do it for free!!! The AZ residents were the ones in the meetings with AZGFD wanting to punish the Non Residents by jacking up the fees.

I have faithfully paid my $125 (?) each year for the last 4 years, and never even stepped foot in AZ, and then to read that AZ wants to jack my Elk tag up to $3200 if I ever draw it is pure BS. Tell me again why I should feel sorry for the AZ residents and be upset with USO.....

DanR,
You are really showing your keen understanding on this topic, huh???
 
Buzz
It's not a lack of consideration for nonresident hunters, it's just YOU they want to keep out ! Call the dike governor and explain how you and gunner are simply poor mis-understood lesbians and get on with your life !
 
FCB,

How about you explain how USO is doing the wrong thing by challenging AZ's plan to sell Elk tags for $3200, if drawn?

Or a simpler one, who stands to benefit the most if the tags go to $3200, us poor Volvo owners or the rich clients of USO?

If the AZGFD is really worried about revenue, then they either need to sell more licenses/tags, or get the residents to carry more of the burden.
 
The 3200 is the ceiling for the tag fee's. AZGFD from what I hear is propsing a 30% hike in both resident and non-resident tag fee's this year. If EG's boyfriend Taulman keeps at it it may just go to 3200, that'd be ashame.

Also I believe residents do carry most of the burden. If non-resdidents are getting let's 10% of the tags for an elk hunt right now. 10 non-resident tags would bring in roughly$4900 in tag and license fees. The 90 resident tags would bring in (assuming the resident only bought a hunting license $25, most buy a combo $44) roughly $9000. Looks like residents win to me.
 
Stan, I think USO and Taulman are scavenging butt-pirates and their lawsuit was a crock. But I have to admit I hate the idea of being priced out of the application in that state with the amount of bonus points I have and as much as I'd like to hunt there at some point.

ELKGUNNER, let me quote you: "In my experience, any unit that has a 65% success rate probably has too many Elk for the carrying capacity of the country." and "No offense, but 65% success rates are not "hunts", those are "shoots". and "You go ahead and enjoy your 65% "premier hunts" and the " hotels, restraunts," and I'll enjoy the 20% "crappy hunts" in Idaho, the ones where you wear out a pair of boots every other year, the ones where you work so damn hard to get into the Elk, that at night you can't even stick your face inside your sleeping bag due to the stink. I guess everybody has their own idea of a "premier" hunt.....

So, having preached to us about your almighty against-all-odds, get-down-n-dirty, holier-than-thou elk hunting views... you're applying for these Arizona permits? What do you think the success rates are for these hunts that may be priced at $3200? They are early season rut hunts with a rifle that approach 100% success.

You're almost as hypocritical as John Kerry. For you, they should charge $10K and require that you are accompanied by some dickweed USO guide, Taulman himself, his ugly wife, and a camera crew. You could be on the next episode of "Real Hunting."
 
Kurt I agree that Taulman and USO are a bunch of scavaging butt-pirates. I also dont' want the tags to get out of control. They are also going up for residents as well. It'll be hard for a lot of residents to put in for all species for the fall draw. I agree as well; that EG should have to pay $10,000 and get guided by the big douche-bag himself, for acting like a scavaging butt-pirate.
 
By the way ElkGunner, I'm departing tomorrow for that 4-day premier MT bull elk hunt.. although probably not as top-shelf as an Arizona rut-hunt, and the video won't be nearly as close to Hollywood material as you on Real Hunting... but it will have to do. I'll send a copy of the video to your neighbor so you can see what it's like outside of your own little private idahobubble.
 
I still cannot understand why any of you guy`s would even want to go to all of the trouble to "apply and pray" you get an Elk tag in AZ? I can understand it in states without elk ...Buy W.T.F. Buzz/ Gunner and some others you get a tag every year in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming? Greenhorn i saw that "MONSTER BULL" you killed in the snow. [you can`t hardly get any better] I say Screw the U.S.O. and if we have to screw some others [out of staters] then too bad..yes i am a selfish S.O.B....and if other states want to screw me then so be it...I have been waiting all of my life for a Bighorn tag/a Buffalo tag/ and an Early bull tag.... we have plenty of pigs and coues deer.. but as for the other species [once in a lifetime] i say raise the roof ! to the max! thats just one selfish mans opinion.

This might not be the "answer" to U.S.O. But it is a start! lets them know we are not taking their bullshit,lawyer whores,etc. Slow them down for now and maybee something "stronger" in the future... :)
 
CJCJ, with that attitude i hope you never plan to hunt outside of AZ. Keep in mind al lwill follow AZ if they get away with it.
 
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