Fixing Western Hunting

[huntin24/7]

As someone who’s hunted and fished several different states and provinces, I always feel like it’s a privilege to do that. I think many on here share that sentiment. So, as big game populations mostly are going down in the west, good habitat is decreasing in many areas, and pressure is increasing on accessible lands, most can probably understand why when some non residents come off as entitled outdoorsman wanting a bigger piece of the pie and complaining about the price, it can rub many of us residents the wrong way. I don’t necessarily think this is a reflection of the majority. Also, when these comments are made on a forum like this, where many of us are also advocating for increased license prices for ourselves as residents and potentially less opportunities for ourselves to help out these herds, it can create more animosity. We all know there are also lots of residents that don’t give a shit about the actual animals or anyone but themselves, but I think it’s good to think about some of the points mentioned.

 

[BuzzH]

Yup, a journal 27 pages long worth of time and effort to simply tell the world we collected three sets antlers. Had nothing at all to do about the journey getting there.

I have over 40 years of journals, but don't slap them on the 'net.

What's your point?

 

[406dn]

Are the wages still lower in 2024?

List of U.S. states and territories by median wage and mean wage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I will grant you that Mississippi sucks the hind tit in most any measure of the quality of life. I was using the wage scale in Montana, which by the link you posted is pretty modest.

The median wage for Montana was listed for 2020 as ~ $38k. I'd call that a fairly low wage. Remember, half the jobs pay less than that. Montana ranks 37th on median wage, Idaho 44th. So I'd say yes wages are still pretty low in comparison.

 

[Irrelevant]

Are the wages still lower in 2024?

List of U.S. states and territories by median wage and mean wage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wow there's some surprises on that

 

[BackofBeyond]

What's the hold up?

We.
Are.
Full.

Don’t you put that ju-ju out there Buzz!

 

[seeth07]

I have over 40 years of journals, but don't slap them on the 'net.

What's your point?

You called me out on that the thread you linked to prove that all I care about is a grip n grin. You view that thread as my attempt to post up photos of dead animals for the likes? Seems like a ridiculous accusation to me.

What is it you are doing with you threads about knocking down a bunch of elk this year? Not much story there, all I mostly see are photos of dead animals? How about every time someone says WY doesn't give NR opportunity and you post up dozens of photos of dead animals? You are extremely stretching here

 

[BuzzH]

We.
Are.
Full.

Don’t you put that ju-ju out there Buzz!

I've found that talk is cheap, he's not leaving his bubble, except for vacation.

 

[BuzzH]

You called me out on that the thread you linked to prove that all I care about is a grip n grin. You view that thread as my attempt to post up photos of dead animals for the likes? Seems like a ridiculous accusation to me.

What is it you are doing with you threads about knocking down a bunch of elk this year? Not much story there, all I mostly see are photos of dead animals? How about every time someone says WY doesn't give NR opportunity and you post up dozens of photos of dead animals? You are extremely stretching here

I didn't call you out, you did that all on your own.

 

[406dn]

Well thats just it. It's changing what I believe in. Here I thought the few thousand I put into various things mattered. Guess it doesnt?

Expecting a quid pro quo for a charitable donation does not sound very charitable to me.

 

[seeth07]

Expecting a quid pro quo for a charitable donation does not sound very charitable to me.

You are right its not. That's not at all what I'm saying, in fact the exact opposite.

I'm done and exhausted, this discussion is getting tiring since every time I say something, people twist what I'm saying or don't understand.

I'll try one last time - simply put I used to believe that donating money to wildlife organizations was considered advocacy and spending time researching, learning and submitting comments/emails to those making decisions was worth the effort. When I'm told that I'm not needed and these things aren't enough to actually help wildlife I'm starting to feel that I should just stop. It isn't just one person here, its dozens. There is very little appreciation shown to the role that the NR plays in wildlife management across the western states. Or at least that is how I feel each time I log into HT.

 

[Nameless Range]

I had a job offer last year to move to Boise with 125% more pay. I was wondering the same thing about that argument

Wages should always be juxtaposed against cost-of-living/housing to get the full picture.

Based on income levels, Idaho ties with Montana and Hawaii for the lowest affordability in the nation.

 

[406dn]

You are right its not. That's not at all what I'm saying, in fact the exact opposite.

I'm done and exhausted, this discussion is getting tiring since every time I say something, people twist what I'm saying or don't understand.

I'll try one last time - simply put I used to believe that donating money to wildlife organizations was considered advocacy and spending time researching, learning and submitting comments/emails to those making decisions was worth the effort. When I'm told that I'm not needed and these things aren't enough to actually help wildlife I'm starting to feel that I should just stop. It isn't just one person here, its dozens. There is very little appreciation shown to the role that the NR plays in wildlife management across the western states. Or at least that is how I feel each time I log into HT.

I would tell you that your help monetarily and submitting your comments is advocacy. So good on you for your past involvement.

Also, you are perfectly free to advocate for more licenses for NR hunters. It should not surprise you that there is a resistance to that.

I have met fishermen and hunters from literally all over the world, in the forty plus years of calling Montana home. That should inform me that our outdoor resource is a global treasure. We do have an obligation to share our blessings.

Where it gets complicated is how to share. That is a continuous political debate, never entirely settled. Speaking just for myself, I enjoy sharing our resource up and until I get a sense that our state is their playground, that the purpose of our lives is to accommodate their outdoor pursuits.

I do not think the friction can ever be entirely, or even substantially resolved. The supply/ demand imbalance is insurmountable, I'm afraid.

 

[FI460]

You are right its not. That's not at all what I'm saying, in fact the exact opposite.

I'm done and exhausted, this discussion is getting tiring since every time I say something, people twist what I'm saying or don't understand.

I'll try one last time - simply put I used to believe that donating money to wildlife organizations was considered advocacy and spending time researching, learning and submitting comments/emails to those making decisions was worth the effort. When I'm told that I'm not needed and these things aren't enough to actually help wildlife I'm starting to feel that I should just stop. It isn't just one person here, its dozens. There is very little appreciation shown to the role that the NR plays in wildlife management across the western states. Or at least that is how I feel each time I log into HT.

Stop being such a drama queen. You're taking this discussion too personally. This has become a bit of a match between some pigs wrestling in the mud, and the discussion gets cloudy when folks just keep jumping in.

Individual advocacy is important but as Nick mentioned in one of these threads (I've lost track of where) can you honestly say it's widespread? Your contribution to conservation is commendable but it's not the norm. I've whined previously that residents don't pull their weight either.

Most people, residents and nonresident should be better advocates and put more into conservation. Where you've become tired of what you see as people beating on NRs some of us are equally tired of hearing about the broad base of hunter conservationists, when most people do nothing more than buy a license.

All those nonresidents buying a license and posting on social media isn't turning the wheel like it's being sold to folks in our opinion.

 

[seeth07]

Also, you are perfectly free to advocate for more licenses for NR hunters. It should not surprise you that there is a resistance to that.

You are confusing me with someone else. Unless we are talking about California or Washington I have zero comments regarding the actual number of tags given to NR. 95/5 is pushing about right where I'd get unhappy and voice my displeasure and thankfully most western states aren't there

 

[Deleted member 16014]

There is very little appreciation shown to the role that the NR plays in wildlife management across the western states. Or at least that is how I feel each time I log into HT.

You probably got a thank you from the mule deer foundation and Wyoming wildlife foundation, if you donated to them. If you’re waiting for a fruit basket from Buzz it may be a while.

 

[3855WIN]

I really love my job and boss. I don't need the extra money, have more than I know what to do with anyways. It sure was tempting. If it was WY I probably would have accepted.

Not me. Too cold.

 

[BuzzH]

You are right its not. That's not at all what I'm saying, in fact the exact opposite.

I'm done and exhausted, this discussion is getting tiring since every time I say something, people twist what I'm saying or don't understand.

I'll try one last time - simply put I used to believe that donating money to wildlife organizations was considered advocacy and spending time researching, learning and submitting comments/emails to those making decisions was worth the effort. When I'm told that I'm not needed and these things aren't enough to actually help wildlife I'm starting to feel that I should just stop. It isn't just one person here, its dozens. There is very little appreciation shown to the role that the NR plays in wildlife management across the western states. Or at least that is how I feel each time I log into HT.

Meh, I apply as a NR in 8-9 states, have you ever one time heard me drone on and on and on about how poorly Montana treats me? Colorado? Utah? Arizona? Nevada?, etc?

That answer is no.

I also don't believe I'm the savior to their GF budgets and the last thing I expect from the Residents of a state I apply as a NR in, is a pat on the back for buying a tag or license. I OWE them a pat on the back and a thank you for even allowing me to hunt there as a NR.

The difference between you and me is night and day. Every single time I draw a tag in another State, I don't feel entitled to it. In fact, every single time it crosses my mind that I really can't believe I'm getting to hunt while I know there's hundreds if not thousands of Residents that aren't. Residents that deserve the tag and have done way more than I have. Residents that put up with living where they do, attend more meetings, do more on the ground projects, etc. I don't think I have a right to go around thumping my chest because I bought a higher priced tag.

In no way, shape or form does a Resident of another State I get to hunt owe me a thank you because I paid more for a tag there. That's just unbelievable that thought would even enter anyone's mind. I would feel embarrassed if a Resident hunter ever thanked me for hunting their State. There would be nothing but a prompt correction on who should be thanking who.

Yet, I see it in every thread, and very much directed at Wyoming. Which is pretty ironic, considering just about no other Western State that limits NR's more is even mentioned. The NR entitlement, specific to Wyoming, is staggering. Even more staggering there is scarcely a state more generous to a NR than Wyoming.

Find another shoulder to cry on.

 

[BackofBeyond]

There is very little appreciation shown to the role that the NR plays in wildlife management across the western states. Or at least that is how I feel each time I log into HT.

Little appreciation shown for NR as a whole, or just you and your endless whingeing about not being appreciated enough, or you getting what you think your entitled to?

Because there’s a huge difference.

 

[Nick87]

 

[seeth07]

Little appreciation shown for NR as a whole, or just you and your endless whingeing about not being appreciated enough, or you getting what you think your entitled to?

Because there’s a huge difference.

Want a place to start? Read here. Won't be hard to find what I'm pointing out.

Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

https://billingsgazette.com/outdoors/montana-proposed-hunting-reg-changes-reflect-declining-mule-deer-populations-fish-wildlife-and-parks/article_7c98ee0e-9081-11ee-ba4c-ab2999d5d49f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

www.hunttalk.com

To create a list of comments that could be amassed across this platform regarding NR hatred wouldn't be hard.

You want to help your cause? I don't expect much of a thank you because @BuzzH is correct, we do actually both agree that the NR should always be thankful for the opportunities shared with them. That doesn't mean we should be treated as garbage which is currently consistently happening and only going to keep getting worse every year as what's left for all continues to dwindle. This isn't a good path going forward.