BigHornRam
Well-known member
I think he is dead man walking.
Ukraine / Russia
- Thread starter Cheesehead
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
I get that. I just tend to think there is more to the story than what I read in the press and the US Military can keep some things secret. I hope that for the size of our military budget and our talent in technology we get more than what we see. I could be wrong and simply don't want to believe it.
^^^ as radical as that statement may seem, this is a necessary eventual outcome. Along with the 100+ year of Russian history of destroying anything they view as even a slight obstacle to their desires. The type of behavior we see in Ukraine is part of the DNA of the Russian ruling class.
I posted this on my FB page in 2018 when so many Americans seemed to be fawning over Putin as some sort of tough guy hero. Part of that post was driven by my Finn heritage where any and all things Russian are taught to never be trusted and to be opposed.
*******************************************
How's your history?
Finland - 1918
Georgia - 1918
Poland - 1919
Turkey - 1919
Azerbaijan - 1920
Armenia - 1921
China - 1929
Poland - 1939
Finland - 1939
Latvia - 1940
Estonia - 1940
Lithuania - 1940
Hungary - 1956
Czechoslovakia - 1968
Georgia - 1991
Tajikistan - 1992
Chechnya - 1994
Ukraine - 2008
Crimea - 2014
United States - 2016
Grandma was right....... Älkää usko Venäjää!!!!
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I now have to add Ukraine - 2022.
Even if Putin disappears, history shows us that Russia has an imperialists history that shows complete disregard for freedom, human life, and democracy. Until Russia is changed in a foundational way, starting with Putin and his cronies being replaced, we are kidding ourselves to think this history will change if Russia decides to host "peace talks" with Ukraine.
In my uninformed opinion, this is a time to damage Russia beyond what they ever expected when they rolled into Ukraine. Russians only respect power used without restraint and discretion. I would gladly pay more in taxes, higher gas prices, suffer a downturn in the stock market, if it meant the US and allies would bust Putin's chops in a way he has never seen or ever expected.
Some worry about Putin's threats on using nuclear weapons. I get that, but if we retreat on that threat, that only reinforces what he can get by operating this way. If we cower to that threat, what do we do when he ends up in Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, or wherever is his next target? Will we continue to walk back our promises of security every time he rattles his nuclear saber?
This is our time to make his life beyond miserable. Both internally and externally. Unlike many places where Russia pushes the boundaries of imperialism, Ukrainians have shown they're not going to run off and hide. They are going to stand and fight. If we bail on them, do we really think the next of Putin's victims will think it is worth standing to fight if the US and allies are going to leave them holding the bag? This is our chance. And China is watching to see what benefits come from challenging democracy and freedom with military power.
I just don't know if Americans are willing to pay the price that might be necessary to make a stand here. Whatever sacrifice is required here will pay huge dividends. This confrontation is an eventuality, either now, next year, or ten years from now. The US and allies could help in a much bigger way than the tepid response so far. Just a function of whether or not we are willing to make a small adjustment to our plush lives in order to do so.
Seeing this picture of teachers, mothers, and other determined Ukrainian women signing up to fight the Russians with nothing more than a shitty rifle and a handful of ammo, it makes me realize how strong the human spirit is once they have experienced liberty and freedom. The likelihood of Americans having to do this on our own soil is very slight, but images like this surely make me want to help these people in any and every way possible, now and in the future.
TheJason
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Yes.
I mentioned this among some, lets say, sympathetic coworkers last week. Shit storm ensued. No more politics at work. mtmuley
SAJ-99
Well-known member
This applies to a lot of things - Retirement, education, saving, hunting tags, and geopolitical problems. The price you have to pay today will look very small in comparison to the price you will pay to fix this later on.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
In the Root? NO way? The people here are the brightest................ NOT.
Sadly, I've seen the quite "Conservative" Rooters replaced with an extreme right wing version the likes I've never seen before.
I saw what you did there, and agree 100%.
Trump praises Putin for invading Ukraine,,,"in Trumps own words"
Trump Praises Putin, Leaving Republicans in a Bind
G.O.P. leaders, while condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, were silent on comments made by the former president. Some figures on the right amplified them.www.nytimes.com
I read this article. It’s pretty much all over the map. But the fact that we have politicians that are wiling to be heap praise on a sick protagonist like Putin for the sake of domestic political gain should be enough for the American public to ostracize those individuals for all time. Alas that will not be the case. The strangle hold of partisanship will prevail and Batman spot light trump memes and AR 15 flags will come out again. While the other teams media will gloss over the lack of clear concise policy that administration is failing to provide.
Two sides to a heaping pile of steaming American dog shit and they both stink
TheJason
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This.
I’m not a foreign policy expert, and will never claim to be. I’ve read a lot on the subject over the last couple of weeks, from a myriad of news sources. This goes back over decades, and I have little belief it mattered at all who is currently in the White House.
Potsie
Well-known member
Have been for the last 20… see no evidence to change that thinking.
Nick87
Well-known member
I wish we could get that independent vote to count. Everything that people squabble about isn't destroying America....the two party system is.
Potsie
Well-known member
Well said. My feelings exactly.
D
Deleted member 38069
Guest
Been saying this for a while now. It’s time for the Hanks and Homers of America, to show the youth how it’s done!!
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
We were able to defeat the Soviets without firing a weapon due to our ability to economically cripple them. But this was achieved at a time when China was an impoverished 3rd world country and Russia had no viable trading partners. Now that China is the #2 economy and #1 manufacturer in the world it is unclear how "sanctions" can ever work against these two again. China will prop up Russia if we go 1970's style economic isolation approach.
We can't put the China genie in the bottle. Our catastrophic miscalculations with both China and Russia occurred in the 1990's when we wrongly assumed that capitalism and modern economies necessarily moved countries to liberal democracies (that we could have cheap HDTVs and still be the lone superpower) -- this is obviously is not the case. In the next decade or two, we will have the simple choice between acquiescence and boots-on-the-ground war again and again. My guess is acquiescence is America's answer for now as we have grown weary of the role of "protector of democracy" for a world that doesn't seem to care and allies who seem to respect us less than our enemies. In my opinion, the real price will be paid in 20 years or so, when acquiescence has run out of things to surrender and WW3 with be the only option. I fear that the only thing that short circuits this in the next decade is the Chinese and Russian people toppling their govts - but at this point, it seems unlikely. If our interest was to remain a global stabilizing power against large dictatorships (communist or otherwise) we really screwed the pouch in the 90's.
We can't put the China genie in the bottle. Our catastrophic miscalculations with both China and Russia occurred in the 1990's when we wrongly assumed that capitalism and modern economies necessarily moved countries to liberal democracies (that we could have cheap HDTVs and still be the lone superpower) -- this is obviously is not the case. In the next decade or two, we will have the simple choice between acquiescence and boots-on-the-ground war again and again. My guess is acquiescence is America's answer for now as we have grown weary of the role of "protector of democracy" for a world that doesn't seem to care and allies who seem to respect us less than our enemies. In my opinion, the real price will be paid in 20 years or so, when acquiescence has run out of things to surrender and WW3 with be the only option. I fear that the only thing that short circuits this in the next decade is the Chinese and Russian people toppling their govts - but at this point, it seems unlikely. If our interest was to remain a global stabilizing power against large dictatorships (communist or otherwise) we really screwed the pouch in the 90's.
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
or a small group of fourth rate medical students . . . . #grenada
So, who isn't bright? Us from here, or the new ones? mtmuley
shoots-straight
Well-known member
In order for you to buy into the extremism, you have to be missing a few brain cells in the first place. I'm pretty sure you can figure "Who" I'm talking about.
Kind of sounded like I was painting the whole Root didn't it? Not my intention. It is frustrating that so many drink the extreme Kool aide though.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
China can't sell it's goods to just Russia though.
Addicting
Well-known member
My thoughts and prayers are with them. I served along side Ukrainian soldiers. Never got to know any of them, wishing I would of taken the time to.
Our children are getting a front row seat to world history. This morning over breakfast the world news was on. I was taken back by the quality of simplistic questions they had. Developing critical thoughts on the basics of good verses evil. Love for one another conquering all. A 8 year old promised to defend his family with his BB gun. A 10 year old wanting to help Mom clean the house so Dad could leave again if they needed him.
Proud to be their dad.
Our children are getting a front row seat to world history. This morning over breakfast the world news was on. I was taken back by the quality of simplistic questions they had. Developing critical thoughts on the basics of good verses evil. Love for one another conquering all. A 8 year old promised to defend his family with his BB gun. A 10 year old wanting to help Mom clean the house so Dad could leave again if they needed him.
Proud to be their dad.
406dn
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- Dec 12, 2019
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- 2,301
I'm not touching that one...but ................
Just a tip of the hat to everyone who is discussing a very harrowing event pretty civilly.
Picking up VikingsGuy comments about expanding trade with China. When I worked at the oil refinery in Billings, the one owned by *xx**, I was in the union leadership for many years. One fallout from that is that from time to time, I got to meet several senior executives.
I was seated with one at a luncheon and some how trading with China came up. My angle, most likely, was our cheerfully bleeding out manufacturing jobs domestically was hurting our middle class. He was firmly of the opinion that trading with China was a huge positive. His view was that as China became more industrialized and prosperous, they would certainly see the advantages of open free societies.
I do not know if the jobs could have been forever saved, but it's pretty clear that China has little interest in an open free society.
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