Ukraine / Russia

[hank4elk]

Randy you are spot on!
Time to decide if you are for right or wrong. There are no sort of sides in this.
Talk of US lacking in this discussion is for losers ,traitors and criminals.
We are the US. Not an experiment gone bad, just progressing ,learning and acting on the lesson.

After Putin is gone and the world teaches the Russian people they do not have to be slaves, we box out the Chinese until they learn about humanity towards themselves. Follow suit with the others.

Today the leader of the UN security council is a ruskie ologarch. Clap that sucker in cuffs and lets get this done.

 

[VikingsGuy]

China can't sell it's goods to just Russia though.

Except US and EU are no longer self sufficient and require chinas goods and parts to run their own economies.

 

[Irrelevant]

When do we see the communist version of the Arab Spring, and what drives it?

 

[Nameless Range]

*******************************************
How's your history?
Finland - 1918
Georgia - 1918
Poland - 1919
Turkey - 1919
Azerbaijan - 1920
Armenia - 1921
China - 1929
Poland - 1939
Finland - 1939
Latvia - 1940
Estonia - 1940
Lithuania - 1940
Hungary - 1956
Czechoslovakia - 1968
Georgia - 1991
Tajikistan - 1992
Chechnya - 1994
Ukraine - 2008
Crimea - 2014
United States - 2016
Grandma was right....... Älkää usko Venäjää!!!!
*******************************************

I now have to add Ukraine - 2022.



View attachment 213671

This podcast was recorded Friday, so one could say it is nearly out of date on the subject, but I found these two discussing the issue to be enlightening. The two hosts are obsessed with politics and history, and geek-out in the extreme.

Emergency Podcast: Marshall and Saagar Unpack the Ukraine Crisis

Podcast Episode · The Realignment · 02/25/2022 · 1h 15m

podcasts.apple.com

They talk much about many of the events in your list above, going back even further to the Russo-Japanese War of 1904. A folly, much like one could argue their occupation of Finland was, when the Finns killed 5 Russians for every Finn, and Russia really had nothing to show for it. Russia has a long history of follies. I suppose many "superpowers" do.

Prior to this invasion, Putin had been given everything he wanted, and yet, he did it. It's hard to imagine a rational take for his reasoning, and of all the endgames, most, and those that seem most likely, even if Ukraine were to surrender outright tomorrow, is a weaker Russia with greater internal problems than before, and significantly greater external ones - a world that just watched missiles slam into apartment buildings united against them. Have they set the stage for the next decade as one antagonistic to them? It seems so.

Something those two spoke about was the fact that Italy has a larger GDP than Russia. Surprised me. I don't know what the answer is, but it does seem plausible that something that would promote the use of nukes by Russia would be American forces on the landscape. No matter how much we hate someone, Nukes give them a very powerful vote. Again, just the thoughts of someone who doesn't know much.

 

[hank4elk]

Except US and EU are no longer self sufficient and require chinas goods and parts to run their own economies.

Well things can change over night.

 

[Wildabeest]

I think the world writ large missed an opportunity to help both sides broker a deal for the contested land in Eastern Ukraine. Unpopular opinion but I think Russia had an argument, and it could've been met with negotiations that offered Ukraine a chance to part with some land in return for major financial compensation or other similar conditions.

If this were just about Ukraine, you might be right. But I think it’s more about Putin using Ukraine to test the waters on how much he can get away and how weakened NATO is. Ukraine is simply a pawn in his chess game to rule the world.

 

[DanWyo]

I wish there was a wider acknowledgement that this falls squarely on Putin and not what any other country may have done or not done.

My father was in the Air Force when the Cuban missile crisis transpired. I was 11 at the time, so aware, but not fully. The pucker factor feels comparable.

I do know that if there is something like a go fund me drive for Ukraine's military defense, I'm in.

Come Back Alive is a Ukrainian nonprofit that has been operating since the beginning in 2014, working to fund the Ukrainian military. They were receiving a ton of donations until Patreon shut them down, citing they “don’t allow supporting war efforts.” The kind of “wokeness” that is killing us.

You can still donate at this link though:

Благодійний фонд "Повернись живим" - допомoга ЗСУ

Український благодійний фонд - компетентна допомога армії з 2014 року. Реквізити рахунків для допомоги з-за кордону та в Україні ⟶ на сайті. Підтримай ЗСУ та волонтерів!

www.comebackalive.in.ua

 

[VikingsGuy]

Well things can change over night.

It'll take well over a decade of disciplined work to build back electronics and other manufacturing industries. You also have to plan on doing without S. Korea and Tawain.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Come Back Alive is a Ukrainian nonprofit that has been operating since the beginning in 2014, working to fund the Ukrainian military. They were receiving a ton of donations until Patreon shut them down, citing they “don’t allow supporting war efforts.” The kind of “wokeness” that is killing us.

You can still donate at this link though:

Благодійний фонд "Повернись живим" - допомoга ЗСУ

Український благодійний фонд - компетентна допомога армії з 2014 року. Реквізити рахунків для допомоги з-за кордону та в Україні ⟶ на сайті. Підтримай ЗСУ та волонтерів!

www.comebackalive.in.ua

I hate some of youtube/facebook/paypal anti-2A rules, but this one seems pretty reasonable. Should patreon and go fund me also support Al Qaeda campaigns?

 

[noharleyyet]

....from twitter:

Russian Chief of the General Staff, Valery Gerasimov, reportedly fired today. Gerasimov was very highly regarded, the most important military leader of the past generation, & the architect of today’s Russian Armed Forces. He’s served as the head of the military since 2012.

 

[DanWyo]

To me, the comparison is more along the lines of French partisans against the Nazis and Patreon blocking funding to the French.

 

[VikingsGuy]

To me, the comparison is more along the lines of French partisans against the Nazis and Patreon blocking funding to the French.

It's not which "freedom fighter" is good and which one is bad, but do we want social media companies picking and choosing who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter? I think that is a poor idea. They should just stay out of it altogether. These are decisions for governments not for a bunch of 19-year-old coders with a startup in silicon valley.

 

[VikingsGuy]

....from twitter:

Russian Chief of the General Staff, Valery Gerasimov, reportedly fired today. Gerasimov was very highly regarded, the most important military leader of the past generation, & the architect of today’s Russian Armed Forces. He’s served as the head of the military since 2012.

Ahh the sacking of the desk generals once the shooting starts - a time-honored tradition.

 

[SAJ-99]

It's not which "freedom fighter" is good and which one is bad, but do we want social media companies picking and choosing who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter? I think that is a poor idea. They should just stay out of it altogether. These are decisions for governments not for a bunch of 19-year-old coders with a startup in silicon valley.

Hopefully we (US) are learning to play the game. A lot of the visual images being shared might not be accurate, but it shows Ukraine holding so that builds, and even changes to support for them. You can’t change how people consume news. Might as well tilt the message.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Hopefully we (US) are learning to play the game. A lot of the visual images being shared might not be accurate, but it shows Ukraine holding so that builds, and even changes to support for them. You can’t change how people consume news. Might as well tilt the message.

I agree - but I understood this line of discussion to be around patreon funding of "freedom fighters"

 

[shoots-straight]

 

[DanWyo]

We just have different opinions here, and that’s fine. If anyone wants to donate to come back alive, the link I posted should be active.

 

[VikingsGuy]

On the bright side - China (by its behavior around covid, its behavior in Hong Kong, its recent anti-free market moves/signaling, and even its grim Olympics) and Russia (by a preemptive assault on Ukraine before de-escalation talks could be convened) have put European and American people on notice that "what's good for our checkbooks" cannot be the sole lens we apply when dealing with these two nations. And while global trade is generally a win-win, we can not take it to the extreme (as we have the last 20 yrs) to the point that it results in our inability to run our own economy during difficult times.

 

[VikingsGuy]

We just have different opinions here, and that’s fine. If anyone wants to donate to come back alive, the link I posted should be active.

I've got no complaint about folks' wish to direct fund - I was just taking issue with the "woke" label being slapped on patreon.

 

[VikingsGuy]

As for any US citizen that praises czar Putin - I suggest they be deported to Moscow.