Townsend Elk Slaughter II

[double_a85]

Still looking forward to my first elk hunt out west (whenever that may be), but I would probably cry if this was what I travelled thousands of miles to participate in or even witness.

Am I expecting too much solitude and challenge as a result of watching cleverly edited hunting videos?

If your not afraid to hike a couple miles away from roads... you will have all the solitude you dreamed of! Good luck on your first elk hunt out west... whenever ya decide to try it out...

Stuff like this makes the news... but not the way most people hunt.

 

[RobG]

A follow up article explaining some of the issues that the landowners like Flynn are causing. http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...top&utm_source=block_801085&utm_campaign=blox

Lots of blame... no solutions. Maybe legislation should be introduced to prevent hazing elk off of public land before shooting hours.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Maybe legislation should be introduced to prevent hazing elk off of public land before shooting hours.

With the current legislative make-up it will more likely be legislation to legalize adjacent property owners hazing elk off public land at any time, night or day.

 

[RobG]

With the current legislative make-up it will more likely be legislation to legalize adjacent property owners hazing elk off public land at any time, night or day.

Especially considering the "spotlighted" offender is now the head of the F&G committee. Last session there was a lot of harsh penalties introduced ($1500 civil trespass bill with almost no proof) that we fought against. I don't think you are going to solve this problem with more laws against the hunters, although a stricter hunter harassment and hazing laws would be nice.

 

[Ben Lamb]

A follow up article explaining some of the issues that the landowners like Flynn are causing. http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...top&utm_source=block_801085&utm_campaign=blox

Lots of blame... no solutions. Maybe legislation should be introduced to prevent hazing elk off of public land before shooting hours.

Changing landownership and poor behavior by one group of people does not excuse poor behavior on the part of the hunters who partook in this mess.

 

[RobG]

Changing landownership and poor behavior by one group of people does not excuse poor behavior on the part of the hunters who partook in this mess.

As long as the landowners do it and people have easy access to cow tags this is going to happen. There is nothing you can do to make the firing line/mob hunting illegal.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Laws can deem certain actions illegal, but ethics cannot be legislated.

 

[HSi-ESi]

After reading the latest article in the Chronicle - it's a bigger issue than I thought. The 'mob' feels justified due to recent history. Even though their actions put all hunters in a bad light. (I'm not going to label it as hunting).

There is no reason / excuse for this mob style of obtaining elk meat. If the situation needs to be changed - then people have to work through proper channels. If landowners in that area are hazing elk to keep them on private - this needs to be documented, proven so it can be dealt with.

Going out there with 20 plus hunters is throwing gas on a fire.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It's funny that what the Comical writes is taken as gospel on the day the paper comes out. What's even funnier is that "new laws" are the knee-jerk solutions to stupidity. There will never be a harmonious setting when you mix mobs of lazy hunters, landowners, outfitters, herds of elk, and roads. People with two firing brain cells usually avoid that situation.

 

[RobertR]

I have no use for Kelly Flynn and the other land owners that think they own the deer and elk...


http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...93a-7f64-11e4-b485-133775ab8d7a.html?mode=jqm

 

[Kingsnake]

I appreciate the encouragement, double_a85! I will gladly hump a few miles, but I need to spend some time getting into the right physical condition first. This flatland & ATV lifestyle has got me flabby.

 

[noharleyyet]

Good thing they're not using corn flingers...

 

[Ben Lamb]

As long as the landowners do it and people have easy access to cow tags this is going to happen. There is nothing you can do to make the firing line/mob hunting illegal.

As long as liquor stores are in business and people have easy access to a 40 of Olde English, this is going to happen. There is nothing you can do to make drunk driving illegal.

 

[RobG]

That analogy is WAY off the mark Ben. You can test a person's BAC and define him as drunk. On the other hand you can't define the ethical line that can't be crossed to prevent mob hunting. What are you going to do? Make it illegal to have more than 2 hunters per acre? To take shots more than 300 yards? To shoot at running animals? To shoot at an elk herd? If you make that stuff illegal you have basically outlawed hunting.

There are side issues like trespassing and herding the animals with vehicles but even if those are stopped it won't prevent the basic mob hunt that is objectionable to so many people.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That analogy is WAY off the mark Ben. You can test a person's BAC and define him as drunk. On the other hand you can't define the ethical line that can't be crossed to prevent mob hunting. What are you going to do? Make it illegal to have more than 2 hunters per acre? To take shots more than 300 yards? To shoot at running animals? To shoot at an elk herd? If you make that stuff illegal you have basically outlawed hunting.

There are side issues like trespassing and herding the animals with vehicles but even if those are stopped it won't prevent the basic mob hunt that is objectionable to so many people.

It's the exact same mentality. We can't outlaw something because people will still do it. People still drive drunk, people still steal from the elderly and people still will road hunt. Does that mean we, as a society do nothing to dissuade them from acting like asshats?

Every piece of legislation I've heard of resulting from this has been about increasing the fines on existing statutes. Right now it's a $50 fine for shooting from a road/shooting from a vehicle. What's the problem with increasing that to an actually prohibitive fine?

I am not absolving those landowners and outfitters from their role in creating a situation that has brought us here, but I'm also not willing to deflect the blame from poor behavior to other people. Let's increase the fines for poor behavior. We can all agree on that, right?

 

[RobG]

It's the exact same mentality. We can't outlaw something because people will still do it. People still drive drunk, people still steal from the elderly and people still will road hunt. Does that mean we, as a society do nothing to dissuade them from acting like asshats?

Every piece of legislation I've heard of resulting from this has been about increasing the fines on existing statutes. Right now it's a $50 fine for shooting from a road/shooting from a vehicle. What's the problem with increasing that to an actually prohibitive fine?

I am not absolving those landowners and outfitters from their role in creating a situation that has brought us here, but I'm also not willing to deflect the blame from poor behavior to other people. Let's increase the fines for poor behavior. We can all agree on that, right?

Ben, I don't oppose increasing that particular fine, but you can make shooting from the road a capital offense and all it will do is cause people to crawl under the fence and blast away. Whoopty-flippin-do, you still have a mob hunt. The original story said most people weren't doing anything illegal, just unethical.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, I don't oppose increasing that particular fine, but you can make shooting from the road a capital offense and all it will do is cause people to crawl under the fence and blast away. Whoopty-flippin-do, you still have a mob hunt. The original story said most people weren't doing anything illegal, just unethical.

So tell me what the solution is.

This incident is not isolated to Townsend. It happens in the Big Hole, around Dillon, in the Madison, etc. Tell me how we get it to stop.

 

[RobG]

So tell me what the solution is.

This incident is not isolated to Townsend. It happens in the Big Hole, around Dillon, in the Madison, etc. Tell me how we get it to stop.

The only solution I see is to strictly limit the access to cow tags in the areas where this will happen. Some people (BuzzH?) have suggested the problem is elk harboring on private land - which has a lot of truth in it except when weather forces them down. However, I don't think that is a solvable problem without affecting private property rights.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The only solution I see is to strictly limit the access to cow tags in the areas where this will happen. Some people (BuzzH?) have suggested the problem is elk harboring on private land - which has a lot of truth in it except when weather forces them down. However, I don't think that is a solvable problem without affecting private property rights.

So your idea is to restrict access to tags, which would put FWP in direct violation of their legislative mandate to manage wildlife "at or below" objective?

That would be illegal and would be challenged in court and be used to further weaken the agency at the legislature, no?

 

[RobG]

So your idea is to restrict access to tags, which would put FWP in direct violation of their legislative mandate to manage wildlife "at or below" objective?

That would be illegal and would be challenged in court and be used to further weaken the agency at the legislature, no?

Come on Ben, you are getting ridiculous. I suspect the law doesn't require antlerless hunting with a general tag, but if it does that would obviously have to be changed instead of FWP going rogue. I was thinking of something like the controlled hunts of years past where cow tags were issued by district, perhaps with restrictions on which dates they could be used. The hunt would continue through February if the goal was to reduce herd size. That is entirely within the possible.