Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Same here!
The war in Iraq.
- Thread starter Delw
- Start date
Same here!
guppie9
New member
Are you referring to the infamous "16 words". I think you are confusing a mistake with a lie. People say things all the time that are incorrect, that doesn't make it a lie. I can't stand GWB, I think he is a horrible president. However, if you are putting his 2003 SOTU speech as proof of him being a liar, you're going to have to do better. While I think he has made some horrible mistakes, I don't believe he lied about this particular thing. He made an incorrect statement based on what he thought to be the truth.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
"He made an incorrect statement based on what he thought to be the truth." (quote) guppie
Unlike el Guava, who constructs gross fabrication on the basis of incorrect assumption.
Unlike el Guava, who constructs gross fabrication on the basis of incorrect assumption.
JoseCuervo
New member
Guiseppe,
That works fine if you give somebody the wrong directions to the local Bar, or if you tell them the party starts at a wrong time. But to make "incorrect statements" that cause nearly 4000 American Soliders to be killed and 10's of Thousands more to be wounded based on the "incorrect statement" is inexcusable.
One would hope that Dubya would have checked his facts a bit before he started his War of Terror.
Guppie- While I wish I had your optimism toward the President...The state of the Union address is not something improvised. It is a well rehearsed statement with many, many notes to read from. Most often written hundreds of times to make sure the wording is perfect. It is meant to say exactly what it is meant to say. There is no excuse for an oops in this speach. I wish I could use the oops I was mistaken button as much as GW but I wouldn't have a job...would you?
As far as Iraq...I am pissed there were no WMD's. The reason...GW put a lot of lives and resources into something that was wrong. Bad intel...probably but that just shows the frivolous nature with which GW was using to go to war with Saddam. If you want to spend my money and send my kid to War...you better have more than a I thought they had WMD's. You better say, "I am damn sure they have them" and then be able to provide proof...Not just another oops.
As far as Iraq...I am pissed there were no WMD's. The reason...GW put a lot of lives and resources into something that was wrong. Bad intel...probably but that just shows the frivolous nature with which GW was using to go to war with Saddam. If you want to spend my money and send my kid to War...you better have more than a I thought they had WMD's. You better say, "I am damn sure they have them" and then be able to provide proof...Not just another oops.
MNHunter
Well-known member
They did say that and more. I don't care who else said what and when. The prez made the call. The buck stops with him, IMO. He owns this war.
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
-Dick Cheney Speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002.
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
-George W. Bush Speech to U.N. General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002. [ii]
"We know they have weapons of mass destruction … There isn't any debate about it." "[It is] beyond anyone's imagination" that U.N. inspectors would fail to find such weapons if they were given the opportunity.
-Donald Rumsfeld, September 2002. [iii]
"If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world."
-Ari Fleischer Press Briefing, Dec. 2, 2002. [iv]
"We know for a fact that there are weapons there."
-Ari Fleischer Press Briefing, Jan. 9, 2003. [v]
"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."
-Colin Powell Remarks to U.N. Security Council, Feb. 5, 2003. [vi]
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
-George W. Bush Radio Address, Feb. 8, 2003. [vii]
“Does Saddam now have weapons of mass destruction? Sure he does. We know he has chemical weapons. We know he has biological weapons. ... How far he’s gone on the nuclear-weapons side I don’t think we really know. My guess is it’s further than we think. It’s always further than we think, because we limit ourselves, as we think about this, to what we’re able to prove and demonstrate. ... And, unless you believe that we have uncovered everything, you have to assume there is more than we’re able to report.”
-Defense Policy Board Chair, Richard Perle, speaking to a Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee hearing, March, 2003. [viii]
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
-George W. Bush Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003. [ix]
"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly... all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes."
-Ari Fleisher Press Briefing, March 21, 2003. [x]
"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And... as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them."
-Gen. Tommy Franks Press Conference, March 22, 2003. [xi]
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
-Donald Rumsfeld ABC Interview, March 30, 2003. [xii]
"I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now."
-Colin Powell Remarks to Reporters, May 4, 2003. [xiii]
guppie9
New member
Be careful there...I never said I was defending him or that I agree with his position on Iraq. In fact, I said I can't stand him and think he has been a horrible president. I believe that he has lied to the American people and done way more harm than good. All of that aside, what I am simply stating is, in regards to the Nigerian Uranium deal, I don't believe that the President lied. That was the statement made by Jose....that he was a liar because of his statements about Nigeria. He made those statements based on what he believed were the facts. To me, that is not a lie.
JMOCurly
Member
:wank:
I listened to the State of the Union address...........he did not lie. If you think he lied, then you don't know the definition.
He did piss me off on about probably 60% of what he had to say though. It's unfortunate that the Democrats didn't come-up with someone that would have beaten Bush in 2000 or 2004. Even more unfortunate that a conservative did not get in the White house.
Guppie resoponded perfectly to you Jose. Almost exactly what I would have said. I didn't have time to respond today, so at least Guppie stated essentially what I would have said.
Curly
Member
Hunterman
New member
I have family over there fighting this B.S. war..No I don't support the war, never did,,never will... As a Vet. I do support the troops, always have always will...
Now with that being said let me just say this and you will not here anymore from me about it...
1) Bring Bush( and his little puppets) up on MURDER charges then hang his ass for the lives his lies cost!!!
2) GET THE TROOPS THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!!
Hunterman(Tony)
Now with that being said let me just say this and you will not here anymore from me about it...
1) Bring Bush( and his little puppets) up on MURDER charges then hang his ass for the lives his lies cost!!!
2) GET THE TROOPS THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!!
Hunterman(Tony)
Ah.. Tony, is this what you really believe?
So you think cutting and running one of our best moves?
So what would happen to this country if we showed such... I'll call it as it is.... cowardice...?
Would we really be safer? Your grandchildren be safer?
Not starting a fight with you my friend, just asking to see if you’re acting on common sense or letting your emotions dictate your decision
So you think cutting and running one of our best moves?
So what would happen to this country if we showed such... I'll call it as it is.... cowardice...?
Would we really be safer? Your grandchildren be safer?
Not starting a fight with you my friend, just asking to see if you’re acting on common sense or letting your emotions dictate your decision
JoseCuervo
New member
Yeah, you and your G-d Dammed Fu*%ing Conservatives make me sick. Only a sicko like you and your G-d Dammed Fu*%ing Conservatives would exploit the kid's funeral (the original thread Del posted his opening comments in). It can't be soon enough until Dubya and the rest of you G-d Dammed Fu*%ing Conservatives who are exploiting these kids get struck down for all your pompous righteousness.
Nemont
Well-known member
Wow!!!
Jose,
Not arguing with you but just am curious if you believe GWB supports the wacko's from Westboro Baptist Church? Your rant is WAY over the top and I think you understand that as well as anyone. The people from Kansas are lunatics and have nothing to do with being conservative, they are crazy.
Let us get back on topic and leave the crazy rants on both sides and debate the topic.
Whom did GWB murder? That quote is as stupid and tasteless as the people from Westboro Baptist. I believe if you took 30 seconds to form a coherent thought and do a little research that you would find out how stupid that is. Think about this: the dems have been in power in congress for over their 100 days, Murder (as you accuse GWB of committing) obviously fits the threshold for high crimes and misdemeanors , why haven't articles of Impeachment been brought to the house floor? Chew on that one and please respond.
Your second statement is okay as it states one side of the of the equation. We could debate the merits of pulling out now. Your first statement is just stupid.
Nemont
Jose,
Not arguing with you but just am curious if you believe GWB supports the wacko's from Westboro Baptist Church? Your rant is WAY over the top and I think you understand that as well as anyone. The people from Kansas are lunatics and have nothing to do with being conservative, they are crazy.
Let us get back on topic and leave the crazy rants on both sides and debate the topic.
Whom did GWB murder? That quote is as stupid and tasteless as the people from Westboro Baptist. I believe if you took 30 seconds to form a coherent thought and do a little research that you would find out how stupid that is. Think about this: the dems have been in power in congress for over their 100 days, Murder (as you accuse GWB of committing) obviously fits the threshold for high crimes and misdemeanors , why haven't articles of Impeachment been brought to the house floor? Chew on that one and please respond.
Your second statement is okay as it states one side of the of the equation. We could debate the merits of pulling out now. Your first statement is just stupid.
Nemont
Conservatives don't consider that wacko church "conservative".
Liberal media considers them "conservatives" and is very quick to call them that. They are far right wackos
All you liberals/dems are quick to point out that you are "liberal" not far left wackos.....same goes for these far right wack jobs...not conservatives.
Nice rant Jose. What about the "Pompous Liberalism"?
Nemont-don't you know the murder GW committed was bringing down the twin towers? LOL
Liberal media considers them "conservatives" and is very quick to call them that. They are far right wackos
All you liberals/dems are quick to point out that you are "liberal" not far left wackos.....same goes for these far right wack jobs...not conservatives.
Nice rant Jose. What about the "Pompous Liberalism"?
Nemont-don't you know the murder GW committed was bringing down the twin towers? LOL
Nemont- Do you believe GW was mistaken or lied about the WMD's? Do you believe going to war should be based on more than third party intelligence or should that intelligence have confirmation? Do you really believe the reason we went to war with Iraq is based solely on the WMD's that Iraq was purported to have? If so, why are we not attacking N. Korea?
Should we continue to support a war that was started based on bad intelligence and misinformation?
At this point I won't get into the questions about GW leadership skills and his accountability.
Should we continue to support a war that was started based on bad intelligence and misinformation?
At this point I won't get into the questions about GW leadership skills and his accountability.
DRAFTSTUD
Well-known member
What worries me the most is the Dems trying to cut funding. When this happens the first thing that happens is Training is short cutted, you end up with a Soldier ill prepared for combat and someone near the end of his tour gets smoked baby sitting them. It has happened in all conflicts, most of the time it was because they were needed ASAP on the front and we should have learned those lessons, but let's cut funding and support our troops. What a bunch of BullChit! You cannot let a bitch and her puppies run the Presidency. John
