Jasper wildfire/climate change

[BuzzH]

Church of the flying spaghetti monster is where its at...and I'm sticking to it.

What is this business about pirates, and the Beer Volcano, and Stripper Factory?​

Religious texts tell us that humans evolved from Pirates. Consider that so-called “science experts” would have us believe humans evolved from primates, pointing towards the shared 99% shared DNA between humans and primates. But humans and Pirates share upwards of 99.9% of DNA.

We believe that Pirates were the original Pastafarians and that they were peaceful explorers. It was only due to Christian misinformation that they have an image of outcast criminals today.

No one knows what the afterlife really holds, but we are told FSM Heaven has a Beer Volcano and Stripper Factory.

 

[perma]

Hang in there HT, pronghorn archery season in two weeks.

 

[Dave N]

Hang in there HT, pronghorn archery season in two weeks.

Maybe I should update my elk hunt thread.

 

[more_cowbell]

Church of the flying spaghetti monster is where its at...and I'm sticking to it.

Might explain this video I found. Is this you at work?

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[perma]

Maybe I should update my elk hunt thread.

Same. I still haven’t picked a WY general unit yet. It stresses me out more than it should.

 

[BuzzH]

Same. I still haven’t picked a WY general unit yet. It stresses me out more than it should.

Tough to make a bad decision there, least of your worries.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Same. I still haven’t picked a WY general unit yet. It stresses me out more than it should.

Wish we could trade tags - ive got a unit picked in montana and id love to trade you for most general wy units

 

[Dubz337]

So back on topic, it appears that only 1/3 of the town was burnt down (still terrible),and the majority of downtown survived. This is the good news. The bad news is the majority of what did burn down was residential housing. Lots of families without homes now, without basically everything actually.

The real pissoff is that Parks Canada, federally run, was in charge of the fire response. They have limited firefighting capabilities, do not have the ability to do night firefighting for example. The provincial government’s wildfire capabilities do include night firefighting, better water tankers both on the ground and in the air, and the ability to assign firefighters from other regions to battle the fire. Parks Canada did not ask for any help from the provincial government until it was too late, probably because the feds and the province are constantly at odds. This has cost people their homes. If there was any time to bury politics, this should have been it. Yet it didn’t happen.

 

[SAJ-99]

So back on topic, it appears that only 1/3 of the town was burnt down (still terrible),and the majority of downtown survived. This is the good news. The bad news is the majority of what did burn down was residential housing. Lots of families without homes now, without basically everything actually.

The real pissoff is that Parks Canada, federally run, was in charge of the fire response. They have limited firefighting capabilities, do not have the ability to do night firefighting for example. The provincial government’s wildfire capabilities do include night firefighting, better water tankers both on the ground and in the air, and the ability to assign firefighters from other regions to battle the fire. Parks Canada did not ask for any help from the provincial government until it was too late, probably because the feds and the province are constantly at odds. This has cost people their homes. If there was any time to bury politics, this should have been it. Yet it didn’t happen.

Parks Canada could hire Jesus himself to fight fires and I don't think it would matter.

 

[perma]

Tough to make a bad decision there, least of your worries.

I got 3 in mind, just depends how far I want to drive I guess.

 

[Dubz337]

Parks Canada could hire Jesus himself to fight fires and I don't think it would matter.

Perhaps not, but having the ability to fight it at night and have access to more tankers may have bought time to build berms or do something that would have saved more people’s homes in the town.

 

[SAJ-99]

Perhaps not, but having the ability to fight it at night and have access to more tankers may have bought time to build berms or do something that would have saved more people’s homes in the town.

It is hard for me to be critical of fire fighters or play arm-chair quarterback. The increase in sheer numbers of wildfires makes it an uphill battle. Even if individuals don't want to believe in climate change, the insurance companies sure do. And the Government is the insurer of last resort.

 

[BuzzH]

Perhaps not, but having the ability to fight it at night and have access to more tankers may have bought time to build berms or do something that would have saved more people’s homes in the town.

Home owners should make sure they have defensible space and do some smart fire preparedness ahead of time. Its not the job of wildland fire fighters to risk their ass to save a house.

 

[hank4elk]

Park fire in CA is over 400k ac in less than a week, 14% contained.
Listened to a firefighter who lost his home say they had 1 million acres of deadwood to get rid of. Or that was plan last year.
They needed 4 million acres cleared.

I have noticed no one seems to want build a fire zone around their houses. In dense forests.
I like trees too, but took out 8 more pinions & junipers when the road around my house got rocked.

 

[ForkieShooter]

Shark attacks have increased and they blame it on climate change. They don't explain how but it fits their agenda. SMH

Not really trying to wade into a “true or false” argument, but I used to spend a lot of time surfing in a place that never had sharks and where they’re a regular occurrence now. I’ve paid attention to them.

Theories on increased shark attacks are a bit more complex than just climate change alone. Although that does play a role. Sharks and some of their preferred prey need water of a certain temp. They might be going further north than in the past seeking that thermal refuge. A few degrees can make a big difference. Think trout and how much more differently they’re affected in 66 degree water vs 70 degree water. This has been one facet of the issue in say, the East Coast. Massachusetts and NY haven’t seen sharks in years, but there’s a lot now. Some of the other factors are that the water in those areas is a lot cleaner than it used to be because of environmental regulations. NY harbor used to be a pollutant dead zone. Now whales, dolphin, sharks, etc thrive there. Especially so since water heats up earlier and stays warmer longer. The combination of warmer, cleaner water, and increased users (regularly hotter outside and the water is cleaner) leads to more attacks.

My quick reading of literature on the subject doesn’t say that any one thing is the only cause of increased shark attacks, but that it’s the aforementioned confluence of different factors. And yeah, warmer oceans are part of that. Not a lot in this world is truly a binary “this one thing caused that one thing.” Anyone reporting differently clearly has an agenda. But, headlines such as “climate activists claim this malarkey” or “climate change caused this” are a bit more flashy than “warming oceans are one factor in a complex web of things that has led to increased shark attacks.”

Anyway, that’s my more nuanced $0.02.

PS-Forgive if that’s a little incoherent. Trying to formulate a thought while feeding a little one is tricky business.

 

[Dubz337]

It is hard for me to be critical of fire fighters or play arm-chair quarterback. The increase in sheer numbers of wildfires makes it an uphill battle. Even if individuals don't want to believe in climate change, the insurance companies sure do. And the Government is the insurer of last resort.

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Home owners should make sure they have defensible space and do some smart fire preparedness ahead of time. Its not the job of wildland fire fighters to risk their ass to save a house.

I'm not blaming firefighters, and I'm not saying they should risk their lives to save houses. I'm saying that if Parks Canada had swallowed their pride and asked the AB gov't for help sooner, they would have had more firefighters on hand to fight the fire, more tools to use to fight it, and more methods to fight it available to them, all falling within the normal parameters of the firefighters jobs. This could have led to a better outcome when the fire got to the townsite. I don't know how that isn't clear from what I typed.

 

[SAJ-99]

I'm not blaming firefighters, and I'm not saying they should risk their lives to save houses. I'm saying that if Parks Canada had swallowed their pride and asked the AB gov't for help sooner, they would have had more firefighters on hand to fight the fire, more tools to use to fight it, and more methods to fight it available to them, all falling within the normal parameters of the firefighters jobs. This could have led to a better outcome when the fire got to the townsite. I don't know how that isn't clear from what I typed.

Sorry, it wasn't clear to me. Hopefully they can do an analysis of this situation and make some changes that help for the future. You suggestions on response may be good, but it is up there with those that say "we aren't harvesting enough timber". It deflects from addressing the real problem.

 

[Dubz337]

Sorry, it wasn't clear to me. Hopefully they can do an analysis of this situation and make some changes that help for the future. You suggestions on response may be good, but it is up there with those that say "we aren't harvesting enough timber". It deflects from addressing the real problem.

100%, and looking back on your posts in the thread I think you an I agree on what the real problem is. I just think once the die was cast and the fire was shown to be a threat to people's homes and livelihoods, Parks Canada's reaction could have been much better, and should have been.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Sorry, it wasn't clear to me. Hopefully they can do an analysis of this situation and make some changes that help for the future. You suggestions on response may be good, but it is up there with those that say "we aren't harvesting enough timber". It deflects from addressing the real problem.

I mean - i like a majority of your takes @SAJ-99 and im no climate science denier....

BUT all of those solutions are HUGE conversations with big ugly solutions that take international/national conversations. Other solutions - that are smaller scale and not huge mountains to climb are on the table and shouldnt be ignored.

The only point i was trying to bring - there are other solutions and treatments. Logging, prescribed burns, etc. to me - its akin to someone getting cancer and just hoping a true cure comes and not seeking other treatment options that are available.

 

[BigHornRam]

Old wooden structures surrounded by 110 year fire suppressed forests are going to burn sooner or later. Build back with fire resistant materials and start doing controlled burns around the town.