tennessee-hunters-sue-game-wardens-trail-cameras

[F250]

If the whole covid mess taught us anything it's that some LEOs will abuse their power simply because you allow it. I understand that we simply come from different cultures as well. In the deep south we have a strong conservative values and property rights are among them.

Ummmm… the Civil War ended a long time ago…

 

[338win]

Whenever I hear someone talk about being from the south....

 

[longbow51]

The "got something you want to hide" argument doesn't mean much anymore, as anyone who watches any news can readily see.

And, undoubtedly, poaching, etc., does occur on private land.

But, sometimes it seems odd. A friend of mine had access to a private stretch of river (mostly unfloatable because of small dams, although a few tried). I would go with him occasionally and wardens were always watching. Not sure why, as his rules were dry flies only, catch and release only, and no overplaying of fish. I can't imagine what laws they thought we would break.

Or maybe they just wanted casting lessons.

Still, weirded me out a bit.

 

[longbow51]

View attachment 286081
Whenever I hear someone talk about being from the south....

That's pretty close to a racial map, so be a little careful.

 

[jt13]

Especially in eastern states, the loss of the Open Fields Doctrine would essentially remove the ability to enforce game laws on private property. Unlike out west, the vast majority of the land is private and the vast majority of wildlife lives on that private land. The inability to effectively police private property when needed would be a massive detriment to the wildlife resource that the state is obligated to protect. Many don't realize that a search warrant is harder to obtain than they see on TV. Any good judge sees probable cause as a high bar, as it is intended. Needing a warrant to step on 90%+ of the dirt in the state is an unnecessary hamstringing that the resource will ultimately pay for.

If that's what the people want and what law of the land becomes, so be it. Conservation law enforcement will adapt accordingly and do they best they can. However, you'd have to be blind to not see the reason convicted poachers are usually the ones pushing this agenda.

 

[SAJ-99]

I agree there isn't enough Game Wardens out west but I will never agree with wardens entering private property warrantless.

The story sounds like a case of overreach and the judge agreed, but I have to believe there is more to the story not reflected by the author. I have no problem with checking and enforcement on public land, but as has been noted, this is hard in states with very little public.
On a side note, it seems these stories involve waterfowl hunters a lot. Maybe just my perception.

 

[seeth07]

Especially in eastern states, the loss of the Open Fields Doctrine would essentially remove the ability to enforce game laws on private property. Unlike out west, the vast majority of the land is private and the vast majority of wildlife lives on that private land. The inability to effectively police private property when needed would be a massive detriment to the wildlife resource that the state is obligated to protect. Many don't realize that a search warrant is harder to obtain than they see on TV. Any good judge sees probable cause as a high bar, as it is intended. Needing a warrant to step on 90%+ of the dirt in the state is an unnecessary hamstringing that the resource will ultimately pay for.

If that's what the people want and what law of the land becomes, so be it. Conservation law enforcement will adapt accordingly and do they best they can. However, you'd have to be blind to not see the reason convicted poachers are usually the ones pushing this agenda.

Someone from Texas can correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't Texas be pretty much case in point for your argument here? Game officers aren't allowed to enter private land. Certain areas of Texas are as close to wildlife owned by private citizens as it comes in this nation. I know this is quite the generalization of Texas as certainly a lot of Texas isn't like this so don't beat on me too hard Texans.

 

[jt13]

Someone from Texas can correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't Texas be pretty much case in point for your argument here? Game officers aren't allowed to enter private land. Certain areas of Texas are as close to wildlife owned by private citizens as it comes in this nation. I know this is quite the generalization of Texas as certainly a lot of Texas isn't like this so don't beat on me too hard Texans.

I don't know anything about how Texas does things. Though I wouldn't think the large ranches, high fences, exotics, etc. would be very analogous to the eastern states I was referring to.

 

[seeth07]

the loss of the Open Fields Doctrine would essentially remove the ability to enforce game laws on private property.

@jt13 this statement is what I was referring to. If officers can't openly go onto private, they essentially will have a very hard time enforcing anything and therefore the private landowners have control over their own wildlife. I was once invited to a waterfowl hunt on a large high fence ranch in Texas and it was going to be free so I almost jumped at the opportunity. When I talked with the family friend that was part owner of the property about the hunt, I was immediately turned off and decided not to go when I learned that they bait their ponds heavily with corn because "the wardens aren't allowed to enter our property so we can't get caught".

 

[jt13]

@jt13 this statement is what I was referring to. If officers can't openly go onto private, they essentially will have a very hard time enforcing anything and therefore the private landowners have control over their own wildlife. I was once invited to a waterfowl hunt on a large high fence ranch in Texas and it was going to be free so I almost jumped at the opportunity. When I talked with the family friend that was part owner of the property about the hunt, I was immediately turned off and decided not to go when I learned that they bait their ponds heavily with corn because "the wardens aren't allowed to enter our property so we can't get caught"

Okay I'm with you now, I understand what your were getting at. It's not hard to imagine that sentiment spreading

 

[OleRedbeard]

Got something you want to hide from them ?

@Pack'n It

Why would somebody exercising something as simple as their privacy on their own land mean they may have something to hide?
Under that understanding... if the game belongs to the state and that alone gives the F&G a right to trespass on that land to monitor or try to protect that game does it not also apply to private citizens going on the same land to pursue those animals in fair chase, since it is considered state property and trumps a landowners right to his personal property and privacy with land already taxed by the state with a valid deed saying it is privately owned which under most understandings gives certain rights of ownership?
Or could it be simplified by simply saying that no law enforcement agency of any kind has the right to monitor a private citizen on his own property without a warrant or some other legal course being taken beforehand...
How would you really feel if you found a camera pointing into your house watching you go about your daily life... whether it was for investigative purposes or something nefarious does it matter? its still a gross invasion of privacy.
Wheres the line? just because you have a badge you can put a boot on anyones neck just to make sure they arent doing anything wrong? what kind of reasoning is that... maybe we were raised quite different or you're not originally from America.
also.. I say this as a law enforcement officer of 17 years and a land owner... the checks and balances of this nation have no grey lines.. however many agencies and political figures have found a way to skew that and make it so. Covid and the patriot act are prime examples.

 

[Dakotakid]

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

The US Supreme Court decided open fields did not meet the persons, houses, papers and effects categories. And was not unreasonable.

Each state has the option of being even more protective of privacy and private property.

the “ if you don’t have anything to hide” argument is the very antithesis of the founding fathers reasoning for protecting personal liberty and personal security. Allowing the government unrestrained access to a persons home in part, caused a revolution.

 

[more_cowbell]

View attachment 286081
Whenever I hear someone talk about being from the south....

No way Oregon is even close to #23, but if that is accurate then none of them are running the State

 

[F250]

Why would somebody exercising something as simple as their privacy on their own land mean they may have something to hide?
Under that understanding... if the game belongs to the state and that alone gives the F&G a right to trespass on that land to monitor or try to protect that game does it not also apply to private citizens going on the same land to pursue those animals in fair chase, since it is considered state property and trumps a landowners right to his personal property and privacy with land already taxed by the state with a valid deed saying it is privately owned which under most understandings gives certain rights of ownership?
Or could it be simplified by simply saying that no law enforcement agency of any kind has the right to monitor a private citizen on his own property without a warrant or some other legal course being taken beforehand...
How would you really feel if you found a camera pointing into your house watching you go about your daily life... whether it was for investigative purposes or something nefarious does it matter? its still a gross invasion of privacy.
Wheres the line? just because you have a badge you can put a boot on anyones neck just to make sure they arent doing anything wrong? what kind of reasoning is that... maybe we were raised quite different or you're not originally from America.
also.. I say this as a law enforcement officer of 17 years and a land owner... the checks and balances of this nation have no grey lines.. however many agencies and political figures have found a way to skew that and make it so. Covid and the patriot act are prime examples.

Yup an American. Yup 46 years in LE. Never out my boot on anyone’s neck.

 

[Sytes]

I say this as a law enforcement officer of 17 years and a land owner... the checks and balances of this nation have no grey lines..

Open Fields

: Analysis and Interpretation of the of the US Constitution

law.justia.com

Each State may apply differing standards for State LEO activity. Where you've operated may differ from other States. Some States maintain SCOTUS rulings as their use whereas others may require RS or PC.
From a Fed LE standard, it's established SCOTUS "Open Field Doctrine". Need not RS nor PC.

OPEN FIELDS DOCTRINE: SOME BASIC RULES | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

 

[Pack'n It]

View attachment 286081
Whenever I hear someone talk about being from the south....

That sounds good, but I have freedoms you'll never have because I'm from the South. I live in an area with virtually no crime, I own 60 Acres. It ain't much but it's mine, it's paid for and my taxes are $350.00 a year. We didn't have 1 single BLM riot, we didn't run scared from some made up sickness. I'll match my wit with yours any day. Your map is skewed but a simpleton like you could never understand the complexities of such a survey. The reason many southern states score so low is the population of under served Black Communities.

 

[338win]

That sounds good, but I have freedoms you'll never have because I'm from the South. I live in an area with virtually no crime, I own 60 Acres. It ain't much but it's mine, it's paid for and my taxes are $350.00 a year. We didn't have 1 single BLM riot, we didn't run scared from some made up sickness. I'll match my wit with yours any day. Your map is skewed but a simpleton like you could never understand the complexities of such a survey. The reason many southern states score so low is the population of under served Black Communities.

 

[Pack'n It]

View attachment 286135

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13-11
God Bless You

 

[DouglasR]

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13-11
God Bless You

I thought that was Todd Schneider?

 

[np307]

That sounds good, but I have freedoms you'll never have because I'm from the South. I live in an area with virtually no crime, I own 60 Acres. It ain't much but it's mine, it's paid for and my taxes are $350.00 a year. We didn't have 1 single BLM riot, we didn't run scared from some made up sickness. I'll match my wit with yours any day. Your map is skewed but a simpleton like you could never understand the complexities of such a survey. The reason many southern states score so low is the population of under served Black Communities.

Listen, some of us have tried very hard to cultivate a positive image of the south amongst all these yankees and midwesterners, please don't undo all the progress we've made.