Task force $1,950 NR elk tag

[bts09]

Thanks, as always, Buzz, for your insight and information. Seriously, so many of us rely on you and appreciate it.

I'm a non-resident of Wyoming. To answer the question posed, I think it's bad that the allocations are going 50/50, but I think Sy's goal here (and others) is to probably get special draws back to draws that you could get with substantially fewer points (so they can then sell more outfitted hunts to folks that have fewer points to draw with). I mean, if you look at draw odds right now, for elk and antelope, in many units there is not much difference in odds between special and regular for the same points. Sometimes, it even flip-flops and your odds are WORSE paying for the more expensive tag. I don't know, but I suspect, the intention of the special draw was to allow for people to jump in line a bit and not have to accumulate so many preference points. If that's true, then I think this will actually result in getting back closer to that original goal. I'm not saying I agree with that goal or that I find it a compelling one from a resource management or opportunity point of view, but I at least understand it.

And so I think those that have posted on here that next year's special odds will be all out of whack are right. I'd be surprised if next year's odds aren't better for the regular than the special when all is said and done, which should create some opportunities for those willing to pony up $2000 for a special tag in 2024 -- I will not be one of those people. It seems to me cow elk are about all I can afford, which is fine with me because it's my understanding that they're just as good to eat as bulls.

I actually think the greater impact is going to be seen in antelope. Elk feels like an expensive animal, if that makes sense. Antelope really do not. So while there may be plenty of people willing to pony up $2000 for a bull elk, my guess is the universe of people willing to pony up $1200 for an antelope is much, much smaller.

 

[BuzzH]

for the good of man kind would you explain the one year reserve?? I thought some where close to 70% of the revenue came from NR licensing related and Federal Funding??

Yes, they have been putting extra money from revenue into a reserve fund and it's increased to a years worth of operating expenses.

Just a bit more than 50% of the game and fish budget is from nr license sales.

 

[LopeHunter]

I only read the first page of this thread, so forgive me if I digress from the current discussion.

I spent the last 9 days in the mountains with a friend, hunting a tag that took me 18 years to draw. I didn’t kill anything. I saw some really, really cool shit.

Mid-morning today when it was clear I was probably going home empty-handed for this round of the hunt, I turned to my buddy and I said “it doesn’t take a tag to do any of this.” I told him that I have thought often recently about selling all of my hunting gear and hanging it up. Because it doesn’t take a tag.

I have been a pretty hardcore (sometimes to a fault) wild sheep advocate for about 13 years now. The hardest thing about making more wild sheep advocates is the fact that it is very difficult to get a tag, and that sheep hunting has a well-deserved reputation of being a “rich man’s sport.”

I think it’s important to think about how the base of advocacy shrinks when people are priced out of the game. I may sell all of this crap in the garage some day, but I will continue to advocate for the resource I love. But I’ll be honest (to a fault) and say that when that day comes I will no longer care about the hunting aspect. It will be solely about the resource. Because it doesn’t take a tag.

I have the same feelings. I drew zero tags last year and felt okay not hunting. I drew 5 tags this year and might hunt one as is 1 in 500 odds sort of tag. I have plastic bins full of clothes, gear, etc. May never use them for a hunt. I could use the space in my garage for a second vehicle. Time will eventually make the choice for me if I keep waffling.

 

[woods89]

Starting to think more these days about driving east to hunt public land deer too.

I'm seeing more and more content and comments like this and as a Midwesterner I don't like it one bit!

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I said it before and I'll say it again....use your points ASAP and don't buy any more....screw WY and their outfitters.

 

[np307]

Starting to think more these days about driving east to hunt public land deer too.

If anybody from HT ever wants to come hunt our dinky NC public land deer, I'll gladly show them around the pines.

 

[rtraverdavis]

There are a number of deer tags in Wyoming that I would gladly do whatever it took to afford the $1200 to be able to hunt, but I like the idea of splitting my elk points with friends to draw a really fun cow hunt in the regular draw. I like elk a bunch, but not in the same way I like mule deer.

But I don't like this. Price increases like this, among many other things, bodes ill for the future of hunting and conservation.

 

[woods89]

I agree 90% and also thanks for all you do for conservation of the resource, sincerely work worth doing. Thanks, I understand that you are a hunter, maybe some bad analogies coming here but the vegan chef scares me to death regardless how good the first three courses tasted. There is something I can't describe that is missing when we don't hunt. Those that don't feel it will never know and won't miss it. This is bad but maybe like a sexless marriage but with a pretty spouse by your side. Just not the same as wanting something more and making it all work.

I don't know for sure that advocacy shrinks as price increases. Heck maybe as the costs go higher there would be more money to market and promote conservation??

The marriage analogy you made is maybe a little how I would look at it as well.

My experience still changes when I have a tag in my pocket and a weapon in my hand. It's hard to explain.

But I'm also 33 years old. I've watched enough people's priorities change as time goes by to not rule it out.

My hat is off to those of you who can get the same experience without a tag.

 

[DouglasR]

My hat is off to those of you who can get the same experience without a tag.

Better views and you don’t have to get up at 4:30am

 

[Nick87]

Better views and you don’t have to get up at 4:30am

Nah..

 

[Bigjay73]

If anybody from HT ever wants to come hunt our dinky NC public land deer, I'll gladly show them around the pines.

What counties?

 

[Bigjay73]

I have the same feelings. I drew zero tags last year and felt okay not hunting. I drew 5 tags this year and might hunt one as is 1 in 500 odds sort of tag. I have plastic bins full of clothes, gear, etc. May never use them for a hunt. I could use the space in my garage for a second vehicle. Time will eventually make the choice for me if I keep waffling.

I thought I was alone on this forum. I still love hunting pronghorn, it's just fun and relaxing to me. I'll still put in for deer out on the plains, and an easy cow rifle hunt, but i just don't care for it nearly as much anymore. I'm older, killed enough for a lifetime, just not into what the hunting culture has become. I'll gladly backpack into a mountain lake, go chase birds with friends, or take a novice out to fill a big game tag, but my days of big game hunting are very numbered, and I'm at peace with that

 

[np307]

What counties?

I'll just say central NC because I hunt a pretty wide range. Davidson, Randolph, Stanly, Montgomery are the main ones though.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I only read the first page of this thread, so forgive me if I digress from the current discussion.

I spent the last 9 days in the mountains with a friend, hunting a tag that took me 18 years to draw. I didn’t kill anything. I saw some really, really cool shit.

Mid-morning today when it was clear I was probably going home empty-handed for this round of the hunt, I turned to my buddy and I said “it doesn’t take a tag to do any of this.” I told him that I have thought often recently about selling all of my hunting gear and hanging it up. Because it doesn’t take a tag.

I have been a pretty hardcore (sometimes to a fault) wild sheep advocate for about 13 years now. The hardest thing about making more wild sheep advocates is the fact that it is very difficult to get a tag, and that sheep hunting has a well-deserved reputation of being a “rich man’s sport.”

I think it’s important to think about how the base of advocacy shrinks when people are priced out of the game. I may sell all of this crap in the garage some day, but I will continue to advocate for the resource I love. But I’ll be honest (to a fault) and say that when that day comes I will no longer care about the hunting aspect. It will be solely about the resource. Because it doesn’t take a tag.

Man does this strike a cord.

Heathy portion of tag soup myself this year, but I don't think knowing the outcome I'd change my plan going in... and while out there I kept thinking, I could just do this whenever I want without a tag.

Really appreciate your sheep advocacy, regardless of whether or not I get a tag in my lifetime.

 

[Baerman]

Yes, point creep goes through the roof...in particular if they adopt 50-50 split too.

Do you think point creep will climb on regular but tank on special? If this passes, when would it take effect?

Also, what are the odds that the 90/10 split will happen with deer/elk/pronghorn in the next 5 years?

 

[seeth07]

Well, I’m officially burning my 5 elk point and burning my three pronghorn points next year. Not as worried about deer but I do have 3 points.

After that I’ll be hoping to get lucky in the randoms in wyoming from here on out.

Have to remember I’m very lucky to live in a western state with abundant opportunity at my fingertips.

Starting to think more these days about driving east to hunt public land deer too.

do it, you won't regret it!

 

[BuzzH]

Do you think point creep will climb on regular but tank on special? If this passes, when would it take effect?

Also, what are the odds that the 90/10 split will happen with deer/elk/pronghorn in the next 5 years?

I think point creep will go crazy in the regular and probably drop for some in the special. Soonest it would go into effect is 2024.

No idea about 90/10.

The one we have drive a stake into that will be open for comment is going from 60-40 regular/special to 50-50...I think we can slay that monster with some effort.

 

[Cheesehead]

A contrarian opinion (from a nonresident who is admittedly unfazed by this modest increase):

1) nonstop griping for years about point creep being absolutely unstoppable and how evil point systems are and how we should just burn the system down…when an obvious solution exists
2) a capitalist proposal surfaces in a popular western state to address the issue (ie, jack up rates to meet demand…does anyone think these won’t sell out, and once they do, that other states won’t realize that the market value of a bull elk tag is closer to $2k than $1k?)
3) cue weeping and gnashing of teeth from people who can’t afford it…

Nonresident hunting like mad had its moment. Promoters (Rinella, Newberg, GoHunt, Huntin Fool, etc) made plenty of $ hawking the adventure and accessibility.

A simple scenario: white collar working dude in East or Midwest who makes $150k (that’s not rich in an urban environment)…burns 7 days vacation to come west. Granted he’s still getting paid but the economic value of his time is just over $4k…that’s just what his time is worth. Gas = $1k, hotels/meals = $1k, tag = $1k. He’s at $7k. Would a 14% increase in his trip (tag price going from $1k to $2k) really affect him? Nope. Would it actually be nice because it increases his chances of getting a tag each year by pricing out the blue collars? Yup. Is it long term bad because it decreases ‘advocacy’? Arguably…I’ve been calling bullshit on R3 for ages. It’s mostly there to sell more overpriced gear. 90+% of people are just there to kill. They’re not advocates.

I wish states would start charging $10k down just to apply for a sheep tag. Keep out the riffraff. Let the market drive the bus. If you want a seat, get some cash together. That’s where it is going folks. Some of us can afford it. In a world of diminishing opportunities, getting used to disappointment is a healthy skill to develop.

 

[np307]

A contrarian opinion (from a nonresident who is admittedly unfazed by this modest increase):

1) nonstop griping for years about point creep being absolutely unstoppable and how evil point systems are and how we should just burn the system down…when an obvious solution exists
2) a capitalist proposal surfaces in a popular western state to address the issue (ie, jack up rates to meet demand…does anyone think these won’t sell out, and once they do, that other states won’t realize that the market value of a bull elk tag is closer to $2k than $1k?)
3) cue weeping and gnashing of teeth from people who can’t afford it…

Nonresident hunting like mad had its moment. Promoters (Rinella, Newberg, GoHunt, Huntin Fool, etc) made plenty of $ hawking the adventure and accessibility.

A simple scenario: white collar working dude in East or Midwest who makes $150k (that’s not rich in an urban environment)…burns 7 days vacation to come west. Granted he’s still getting paid but the economic value of his time is just over $4k…that’s just what his time is worth. Gas = $1k, hotels/meals = $1k, tag = $1k. He’s at $7k. Would a 14% increase in his trip (tag price going from $1k to $2k) really affect him? Nope. Would it actually be nice because it increases his chances of getting a tag each year by pricing out the blue collars? Yup. Is it long term bad because it decreases ‘advocacy’? Arguably…I’ve been calling bullshit on R3 for ages. It’s mostly there to sell more overpriced gear. 90+% of people are just there to kill. They’re not advocates.

I wish states would start charging $10k down just to apply for a sheep tag. Keep out the riffraff. Let the market drive the bus. If you want a seat, get some cash together. That’s where it is going folks. Some of us can afford it. In a world of diminishing opportunities, getting used to disappointment is a healthy skill to develop.

Because public trust wildlife isn't a freaking commodity and shouldn't be treated as such

 

[BigHornRam]

A contrarian opinion from a nonresident

I wish states would start charging $10k down just to apply for a sheep tag. Keep out the riffraff. Let the market drive the bus. If you want a seat, get some cash together. That’s where it is going folks. Some of us can afford it. In a world of diminishing opportunities, getting used to disappointment is a healthy skill to develop.

Montana charges NR's $1,250 to purchase an unlimited bighorn sheep tag. Have you purchased one yet, or do you just like to rant on a huntsite?