Salary & benefit negotiations

[Rie Bread]

Make sure there is a Cost of living/inflation wage increase every year that isn’t attached to a yearly performance wage increase.

 

[ismith]

Make sure there is a Cost of living/inflation wage increase every year that isn’t attached to a yearly performance wage increase.

What inflation?

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Make sure there is a Cost of living/inflation wage increase every year that isn’t attached to a yearly performance wage increase.

There is ZERO companies that do this, nice try….lol

 

[Rie Bread]

There is ZERO companies that do this, nice try….lol

Funny iv had it happen at two or three jobs now. It’s called COLA

 

[brymoore]

Funny iv had it happen at two or three jobs now. It’s called COLA

What type of industry?

 

[Rie Bread]

What type of industry?

Utilities. Federal and state agencies and one private

 

[JLDemo]

Lots of good info here and you're in a great position to negotiate. A few things to ponder;

Security Clearance: Adds massive value to your negotiation powers if you already have one and needed for future employment.

GI Bill: Lots of jobs that will accept your GI Bill in a non traditional format, such as apprenticeships, so if you don't like what you hear, an apprenticeship is an incredible avenue.

Skill bridge: if you have the option, use this program as an avenue to get you into a position prior to leaving the service, especially if the place you're looking into offers a skill bridge option.

I come from a safety background myself, those degrees are great, but the professional certifications that the military will pay for while you're still active duty are the money makers.

If you have any questions at all, regarding VA stuff, educational stuff, or what's it like post active duty, just ask. There's a good crowd of us on here that's been in your shoes.

The State of Missouri has a solid veterans department with VSO's that are paid to help you. Use and abuse them.

 

[Bullshot]

There is ZERO companies that do this, nice try….lol

Although Rie says it happens, this is a rare or nonexistent guarantee in most companies. You just have to remain vigilant and advocate for yourself at appropriate intervals and at reviews. Start off fair. Then Earn 1st, ask, and ye shall (more often than not hopefully) receive enough to meet/beat COLA each year and over time gain promotions. Also, I am on board with thinking that 4 weeks is a good goal (and maybe your red line at this stage). With your experience, you could easily ask for a bit more money and maybe a lot more money if it was in a different region, but more vacation is pretty much off the table at 5 and most people with that much have been with the specific org a long while, not typically offered to new employees no matter their experience, unless they are hard recruiting you from another job or you are an owner/top executive. You can softly ask (in context of considering accepting a salary otherwise below your mark) but demand that and you are likely pushing hard on people interviewing you who themselves don't have 5.

* if company has “PTO” and not vacation/ sick differentiated, perhaps then push comparatively harder for that extra week. My company offers a week of sick time and seperately, vacation. Sick is on the honor system, no doc note needed, so you can see where that typically ends up… cough cough. But I only used 3 out of my 5 sick this year. I like not being the proud nail when the bosses want to go to swing a hammer.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

Just a random update, but I got an email yesterday from the site director. He wants to schedule a site visit in February!
He'd like a couple of hours for more talking and then to show me around.

My guess is that might be the place I get cornered and asked what I am looking for regarding a salary.
So, I will have some responses in my pocket. I really want to just respond similar to the way I did before.
Explain coming from the military salary negotiation was never a thing and we always had a outline of what we are in for. Then ask what the general range is for that position.
I will also have my desired number (BATNA - thanks @Treeshark ) in the back of my mind though so I do have at least something to talk on.

This is fun stuff.

 

[Treeshark]

Thanks for the update, keep us posted. Good luck!

 

[crock239]

Everything as far as benefits is negotiable.

Never except the first offer and always counter.

Now to your questions

Question 1:
With limited resources to pull data from, I figure this company pays approximately $85K to $110K for their managers.
One side of my brain knows I have years of leadership experience and come extremely qualified. (go for it all)
The other side of my brain knows I have leadership experience in a different field and no experience in this manufacturing world. (be realistic)
So what would you do?
Also is it fair for me to ask their manager's salary range in a discussion and then make my offer?

It is fair to ask, but I would not expect an answer. They will tell you it is competitive for the industry. I would come up with a number you are comfortable with taking and then add 5k with your counter when they offer you the job. There are many resources for free on YouTube on how to counter.

One thing to avoid doing if you can is to be in a position where you lose leverage in negotiation. Lots of people that are leaving their job or want to leave their job settle for less, just for a fresh start. There will be another company, if this company does not give you what you want.

Most people do not realize the cost or time of hiring someone and if you are identified as a good fit, they do not want to lose you and start over.

For example if you have a 100k position and 10 applicants for the position. It can cost $4,500 and be 45 days just for the individual to be hired and can be more if interested individuals have to be brought in from flights. It can also cost in moving or relocation fees, for signing bonuses, etc. A company is not going to lose someone over 5 grand or an extra week of PTO after identifying the right candidate.

So that puts you in a good position to negotiate, but you have to be willing to pass on the job to put yourself in the best position.

Question 2:
I would assume PTO for a brand new employee looks different from a seasoned employee.
That being said, are you able to negotiate PTO? Example - if a year 1 employee gets 1 day off a month but a 15 year employee gets 4 days off. Can I ask to be put somewhere in the middle?
Starting chapter two of life, an extra week of PTO looks better than an extra $XK a year in salary.

Personally if I was in your shoes with your experience, I would not take anything less than 4 weeks PTO. Every company will try to start off at 2 weeks and prorated for the year you hire on. However, it really isn't much on the company to give another week or two to get their desired candidate. Once again, it is not cheap to hire someone and they will not lose their guy for another week. If the company is willing to lose their guy for an additional week of PTO, then it should be a job you should pass on. If a company is that cheap, then your job as a manager would be a living nightmare.

Another thing to find out during the site tours of interviews will be if the job is actually worth taking. Especially at a manager level, because some workforces will drain the life out of you and there is not an amount of money or there needs to be a personal tax on the company for your salary to deal with the headaches. If the company has a bad culture, I would personally avoid it. However, if you still want to pursue it then your salary needs to go up or you need to walk away.


Question 3:
Is it ok to use other employment offers for negotiation or is that douchey. My entire career has been loyalty to the service.
With this company dealing with me early and working hard to possibly bring me in, I already feel a sense of loyalty.
If have other competitive offers come in, but this place seems like the place I want to work, would you let them know about the other offers in the negotiation or no?

Yes. It is 100% ok, but you have to have actual employment offers. HR is a small world and if you are found out to be lying, you will not get the job. You may also damage relationships to everyone in that HR person's network making it difficult to find work. It is also good to find out what your market worth is and as mentioned before what is a number you can live with. Star employees are expected to negotiate and the more ammunition you have the better your position is.

As far as loyalty, you need to be only loyal to yourself and family. Almost any employer is going to cover their own interests over your interests. So, you should do the same. Look at it as more of a symbiotic relationship, where you both mutually benefit (mutualism). Like Bees and flowers. You do not want to put yourself in a parasitic relationship due to loyalty.


I guess the last piece is are there any pieces of advice you can offer when dealing with hiring process, negotiations, etc.

Use YouTube videos on anything you feel lacking in. Negotiation, Interviews, Counter offers, etc. It is free and often a great resource.

You also want to find out if the company is worth working for.

Which reminds me of this story.

A highly successful business woman was tragically knocked down by a bus and killed. Her soul arrived at the Pearly Gates, where St. Peter welcomed her:

"Before you get settled in, We're instructed to let you have a day in hell and a day in heaven, and then you are to choose where you'd like to go for all eternity."" he said

"Oh, I see," said the woman. "Can't you just let me in?"

"Well, I'd like to, but rules are rules" said St Peter

"Actually, I think I'd prefer heaven", said the woman.

"Sorry, we have rules..." at which St. Peter put the women into the downward bound elevator.

As the doors opened in hell she stepped out onto a beautiful golf course.

In the distance was a country club; around her were many friends, past fellow executives, all smartly dressed, happy, and cheering for her.

They ran up and kissed her on both cheeks and they talked about old times.

They played a perfect round of golf and afterwards went to the country club where she enjoyed a superb steak and lobster dinner.

She met the Devil, who was actually rather nice, and she had a wonderful night telling jokes and dancing.

Before she knew it, it was time to leave; everyone shook her hand and waved goodbye as she stepped into the elevator.

The elevator went back up to heaven where St. Peter was waiting for her.

"Now it's time to spend a day in heaven," he said.

So she spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds and playing the harp and singing, which was almost as enjoyable as her day in hell.

At the day's end St Peter returned.

"So," he said, "You've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. You must choose between the two."

The woman thought for a second and replied, "Well, heaven is certainly lovely, but I actually had a better time in hell. I choose hell."

Accordingly, St. Peter took her to the elevator again and she went back down to hell.

When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth.

She saw her friends dressed in rags, picking up rubbish and putting it in old sacks.

The Devil approached and put his arm around her.

"I don't understand," she stuttered ,

"Yesterday I was here, and there was a golf course, and a country club, and we ate lobster, and we danced and had a wonderful happy time. Now all there's just a dirty wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable."

The Devil looked at her and smiled.

"Yesterday we were recruiting you, today you're staff."

This is a fantastic answer with lots of good insight.

Good luck @Lostinthewoods.

Finding the right "fit" for work, culture, and people is huge...hope it works out for you.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

I had my walk through on Wednesday.
The first hour was another panel interview (first in person) with the director of manufacturing, four managers, and an HR member.

The second hour was my very thorough walkthrough.

I was honestly expecting them to bring up salary stuff because we were in person, but it didn’t come up.

Feedback through my network was REALLY good and I have a feeling I’m getting a job offer this upcoming week.

So the negotiations are about to begin.

One thing I am excited about and didn’t know before. Most jobs are 4 day work weeks…. 530-4.

That means 3 day weekends for hunting, fishing, or growing a little side work venture.

Let’s see what happens….

 

[Rie Bread]

W

I had my walk through on Wednesday.
The first hour was another panel interview (first in person) with the director of manufacturing, four managers, and an HR member.

The second hour was my very thorough walkthrough.

I was honestly expecting them to bring up salary stuff because we were in person, but it didn’t come up.

Feedback through my network was REALLY good and I have a feeling I’m getting a job offer this upcoming week.

So the negotiations are about to begin.

One thing I am excited about and didn’t know before. Most jobs are 4 day work weeks…. 530-4.

That means 3 day weekends for hunting, fishing, or growing a little side work venture.

Let’s see what happens….

3 days off is so good for the family life/ personal life balance!

What state is this job in?

 

[Lostinthewoods]

W

3 days off is so good for the family life/ personal life balance!

What state is this job in?

I’m very excited about that as a possibility. It’s going to be a nice change from the current situation!

Missouri.