No MSG under 18?

[MTGomer]

House bill 390 will be heard by the fish and game committee in the Montana legislature today at 3 PM. It will make moose, sheep, and goat once-in-a-lifetime and raise the age requirements to apply for bull moose, Billy goat, and ram mountain sheep to 18 years old.

It is sponsored by Denley Loge (R-St Regis)

https://legiscan.com/MT/text/HB390/id/1892959

 

[EYJONAS!]

Oh boy I can't wait for this one....

 

[mtmiller]

Looking for a problem.

 

[RobG]

Maybe the logic is that if you shoot one that young because your days got you a tag you couldn’t do it later in life when you could appreciate the challenge more. Anyway, as I mentioned on FB, there are so many applying if you exclude the tiny fraction that win the food don’t change enough to make a difference.

 

[Sytes]

I'm curious, what is the rationale for the "under 18" portion? I'm not asking as a sour person nor a supporter though as one simply wanting to understand the interest for MSG available to build points 18+?
Saw Rob's theory for the idea though interested if anything "official" was released so people could better understand.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Looking for a problem.

As are so many of the bills proposed by legislators apparently attempting to show self-worth. That is why some of us would prefer a legislative session every 90 years for 2 days ... instead of every 2 years for 90 days!

 

[Ben Lamb]

My understanding is that this is a PLPW bill and Loge, since he's on PLPW is the sponsor.

I know that WSF is opposing, and MWF is split, so they aren't going in on it. Not sure who else is going to be at the hearing. No idea why they put 18 and under in there.

 

[tjones]

I know that WSF is opposing, and MWF is split, s

SMH, and they wonder why they get branded anti hunting sometimes.

What miller said.

 

[BuzzH]

Just another way to give those that have been applying longer more advantage.

The point systems have put young kids at such a disadvantage, I see no reason to put them further behind the curve, let them apply.

Montana is such an ass backward State anymore...drop the minimum age to hunt deer to 10, with no hunters safety requirement on the one hand, then don't allow 12-17 year old kids to apply for moose, sheep, goat...WITH hunters safety requirement on the other.

Unbelievable...

I also agree with Miller.

 

[tjones]

The point systems have put young kids at such a disadvantage, I see no reason to put them further behind the curve, let them apply.

Right here.

I can understand OIL, with MSG permits being cut back, but not cutting kids out. And if its OIL and a 12 year old draws, well he his out forever.

I would love to see the comments on this one if it was a "D " sponsored bill.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Currently the max bonus points is 17. In six years my now 12 year old son will be able to apply with one chance in the same drawing with a max point holder who will have 559 chances.

Children are the future of hunting? Yeah right. More self serving legislation that will do nothing to change the unfortunate fact that many of us will never draw a sheep tag in our hunting career. All this does is ensures new hunters will have even less of a chance in their lifetime.

What about the points my 16 year old and 14 year old currently have?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Currently the max bonus points is 17. In six years my now 12 year old son will be able to apply with one chance in the same drawing with a max point holder who will have 559 chances.

Children are the future of hunting? Yeah right. More self serving legislation that will do nothing to change the unfortunate fact that many of us will never draw a sheep tag in our hunting career. All this does is ensures new hunters will have even less of a chance in their lifetime.

What about the points my 16 year old and 14 year old currently have?

To your point, how many people under the age of 18 have ever draw a MSG tag... it can't be a significant number

 

[BuzzH]

Currently the max bonus points is 17. In six years my now 12 year old son will be able to apply with one chance in the same drawing with a max point holder who will have 559 chances.

Children are the future of hunting? Yeah right. More self serving legislation that will do nothing to change the unfortunate fact that many of us will never draw a sheep tag in our hunting career. All this does is ensures new hunters will have even less of a chance in their lifetime.

What about the points my 16 year old and 14 year old currently have?

Only way to win the hunting game is to encourage your kids to be lawyers, doctors, etc. and buy their way to the front of the line. I was barely in the age range to have any kind of reasonable chance at MSG and only because I lived in the right state. Odds for all suck wayyyyy worse now than when I first started applying. I remember when lower rock creek had 1:20-25 odds for drawing a ram tag. I also remember when the breaks had similar odds. Moose odds for some of the less desirable units were 1:30-35. Goat odds ranged from 1:10-20. I was also fortunate to get in close enough to ground floor on points in some states, and also have the $$$ to afford at least applying all over the place to increase my odds.

Reality is, a kids odds of drawing moose, sheep, goat, bison in the lower 48 is hovering somewhere between 0 and about 1%...

Better encourage them to fire up that education and make some $$$...the old way of getting to hunt MSG are over.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Why is the number of people under 18 drawing a tag even relevant? They are legal aged hunters paying the same price for these drawings and tags.

We should also include provisions that eliminate hunters over the age of 55 from applying. Or hunters more than 30 lbs over the ideal weight for their height. Or people who wear glasses... or have a medical condition... or anyone who isn’t me. That would help me draw a sheep tag.

 

[Gerald Martin]

BuzzH, I agree. However, I think a cheaper strategy is to get a pocket politician to pass legislation that puts us at the front of the line.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Better encourage them to fire up that education and make some $$$...the old way of getting to hunt MSG are over.

This is a very realistic and sad statement, all at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Only way to win the hunting game is to encourage your kids marry lawyers, doctors, etc.

Fixed it for you, those professional don't exactly lend themselves to taking time off to hunt in your prime years

 

[BuzzH]

BuzzH, I agree. However, I think a cheaper strategy is to get a pocket politician to pass legislation that puts us at the front of the line.

How do you do that?

Even those at the "front of the line" are in a pretty deep pool with shallow tag numbers...

If you want to hunt sheep, moose, goat, bison and the best elk, deer, and pronghorn...money removes the hurdles and shortens the line or removes the line completely.

 

[Big Fin]

If anyone needs further evidence to show why the legislature should keep out of wildlife issues, this is the best example I can find. I am at a loss for how a legislator can even conjure up such a stupid idea as it relates to youth being eliminated from MSG. Evidently squaring points for the old gray haired folks like me was not enough, so we have to come up with dumb shit like this.

It's as if some of these folks feel the Montana Constitution guarantees all old farts a moose, goat, and sheep tag before they get infirm.

 

[Gerald Martin]

How do you do that?

Even those at the "front of the line" are in a pretty deep pool with shallow tag numbers...

If you want to hunt sheep, moose, goat, bison and the best elk, deer, and pronghorn...money removes the hurdles and shortens the line or removes the line completely.

It won’t have to work. It will just have to ensure other people don’t have as much opportunity. Kind of like this bill.