MT Big 3

[brownbear932008]

Well ain't that a B. So what you're trying to say is that the draw odds are considerably worse?

Also, how do the ewe tags affect the 10% allocation? I'm not sure if NR's can draw up to 10% of the ram tags and 10% of the ewe tags or it is just 10% of the "sheep" tags....

10% of sheep tags ewes do go against it and on a normal year 3 or so are drawn by Non residents taking 3 ram tags out of the equation

 

[brymoore]

I'm out. I only apply for sheep and I started way too late. I'll likely never draw. I'll wait and buy an unlimited tag in a few years.

 

[Big Fin]

Just did my apps today. Sorry to see the lumber being laid to non-residents, again.

If I were King for the Day, no states would have elaborate point schemes, non-residents would have their own drawing pool, and the price difference between resident and non-resident would be no more than 10X, preferably about 6X.

But, since I am not even the boss at the Newberg abode on Johnson Road, no worries about me being "King for the Day."

I know it is a small consolation, but when I draw my Missouri River Breaks sheep tag this year, I promise to stay out the pool for the rest of my life. Promise. Just give me the tag and that will be one less applicant you all have to deal with in future draws.

 

[mtmuley]

I'll stay out forever after my Breaks bighorn tag too. mtmuley

 

[schmalts]

I am definitely out for sheep. Maybe even moose and put my money toward ID where drawing odds are from what I see much better in most units than MT are. Goat I will play until I see what draw odds do with the new rules.

 

[mtmiller]

Pat,

I understand crap odds in MT, but won't ID cost you $170 every year that you won't see again?

 

[schmalts]

Pat,

I understand crap odds in MT, but won't ID cost you $170 every year that you won't see again?

Yes but there are units for moose that in some years have run close to 10% odds. I have not checked recently but the reality is anything with less than 1% odds I am just done wasting my money and will look at Newfoundland. Tell me what the best odds are in MT? Don't forget nonresident are crowded into less units and are not guaranteed 10%. That means no unit will ever have more than 1 tag and most none for a nonresident. Draw odds are a lot worse than in print. The point squaring may help but just my guess in not much because residents also have a lot of points. I am going to call the F&G today and see if I can get some numbers from them. One year I was able to get the numbers of nonresidents who drew limited elk tags in a unit I used to apply for and it was depressing compared to the printed odds in the end.

 

[brownbear932008]

Don't forget nonresident are crowded into less units and are not guaranteed 10%. That means no unit will ever have more than 1 tag and most none for a nonresident. Draw odds are a lot worse than in print.

Yeap if you look at the odds of a moose tag in MT for a non resident they are horrible. And for what to hunt a declining population with so so trophy potential. Lots of better options out there for moose. Now Goat and Sheep I will keep throwing my money in the hat just hoping and pissing away dollars! HAHAHAHAHAHA
Besides I can't take it with me when I'm gone.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Don't apply.. not worth it, odds suck. I haven't missed throwing my name in for over 25 years and will continue to apply for sheep until I die, and will be back in the draw after my 7 year wait is up on these two.

 

[Oak]

Greenhorn, do you apply for moose, sheep and goat in CO? Some of the biggest Shiras are being killed in CO these days, and MT is the only state with more B&C sheep in the book.

 

[brownbear932008]

Greenhorn I think we all gotta agree a moose like that is rare in MT. these days IMO anyway. Some units better than others I'm sure but def on a downward spiral. Like I say I have got my moose itch scratched already I guess.

 

[schmalts]

Here is the ugly facts for nonresident moose tags. I just got off the phone with the drawing guy at F&G. Half of all the units that nonresidents are allowed to apply in did not award a tag to a nonresident. So whatever odds you see in the regulations it is not true.
I am not saying you shouldn't apply but just know what you're spending the money on and figure out if it's worth it for you.
Someone told me the 10% cap is on a region, not the units. If that is the case then one could look at if the ratio of resident to nonresident is more than 10% that factors in heavy. Anyone know that data?
Edit... Not good. I glanced at the ratio of resident to nonresident applicants for moose hunts and my guess is by glancing at the spreadsheet 40% of total applicants come from nonresident. I guess I never knew how bad the odds really were compared to the published ones in the big 3 booklet. Correct me if I am wrong but if nonres are capped at 10% but make up 40% of all applicants and published odds in the booklet for a unit is say 4%, that makes the real odds at less than 1%

 

[brownbear932008]

I really am a fan of ID and thier way of doing things. Very pricey but good odds of drawing. The unit I have applied has very good solid hunting and the odds are very high. My number just hasn't hit yet!

 

[schmalts]

To add to post 72, I glanced at sheep and goat. I would say the ratio of applicants for the units that nonresidents are allowed to apply are closer to 50-50. That would make odds around 5 times less than published in the big 3 booklet. I wish I would not have looked because it is depressing, but at least I will stop thowing money at some of these from now on. Now I know what MT makes nonres only apply for ceratin units. They group us together to make sure we get less odds. I see no other reason why.

 

[schmalts]

Don't apply.. not worth it, odds suck. I haven't missed throwing my name in for over 25 years and will continue to apply for sheep until I die, and will be back in the draw after my 7 year wait is up on these two.

So what if your odds declined 400% and the fees went up around 1000% you still in? Those occasional $5000 cancellation hunts for goat in BC got a whole lot more appealing. A guy can sit around wishing or get doing when your rounding 50 years old

 

[brymoore]

Do I have to buy a $10 conservation license to buy supertags? It looks that way on the MTF&G web site.

 

[LopeHunter]

So what if your odds declined 400% and the fees went up around 1000% you still in? Those occasional $5000 cancellation hunts for goat in BC got a whole lot more appealing. A guy can sit around wishing or get doing when your rounding 50 years old

Exactly, though max decline possible is 100%. If you are a nonresident applying anywhere in the west for high demand critters then your odds will never be better than last year nor as cost-effective of a roll of the dice as last year. Tag prices will keep going up and the cost to apply will go up. Montana has changed the rules this year so even with a 25% decline in nonresident application for the Big 3 that Montana will end up with more in the bank.

Downside for hunters, resident or nonresident, is some folks will put their weapons away and find a new hobby. Their kids and grandkids will be less likely to become hunters. That means more voters who do not understand hunting voting on issues that impact hunters and wildlife. More states will outlaw traps and using hounds. Count on it, if not this year, then in a decade or two. Then archery will be on the chopping block due to rate of wounded critters. Seasons will close near hiking paths. This is our future.

 

[schmalts]

Downside for hunters, resident or nonresident, is some folks will put their weapons away and find a new hobby. Their kids and grandkids will be less likely to become hunters. That means more voters who do not understand hunting voting on issues that impact hunters and wildlife. More states will outlaw traps and using hounds. Count on it, if not this year, then in a decade or two. Then archery will be on the chopping block due to rate of wounded critters. Seasons will close near hiking paths. This is our future.

Unfortunately your right. Even if hunter numbers stay the same while the population as a whole increases it is bad for voters and hunting rights. The average anti hunter is not a vegan and that shows how big the problem already is with the mindset.

 

[Zim]

Well, now glad I made the decision not to get in the Montana point game when they started it. Was afraid it was just a ploy to get applicants invested in it before "setting the hook". Since I began investing in various state's hunting lotteries it has morphed into a business of who can profit the most off those hunters who will never draw a tag in their lifetimes, not just a method for selling/distributing actual big game tags.

Montana has now made my decision to ever get in their game a no brainer.......$70/species/year plus all the guys in front of me with squared points! That deal is even worse than WY's for any newbies starting from ground zero. You can bet MT will morph their rules yet again in the future when they see the decline in new applicants. How?.........by cheapening the points they sold previously. Sadly, most state's big game lotteries these days are in fact legalized Ponzi schemes.

Since I began buying points in 10 states in 1996, only two have not bait & switched by cheapening my points (Ponzi schemes).............Arizona & New Hampshire. That's it. The rest choose money over ethics.

 

[Khunter]

This is certainly one way to better the draw odds.

Moose-I'm out
Mtn Goat-keep the points, I'll just buy a OTC tag in AK
Sheep-gotta dream about something

With these absurd new fees. All I gotta do is out draw Dink and I get my breaks sheep tag. Staying in for that.