MT Big 3

[Beartooth83]

I call BS the average guy not being able to afford this. I know too many people who blow their money on useless stuff. Whether it be cigarettes, eating out 5 times a week, or the latest $500 rain jacket that works as well as my $50 Columbia that I've had for 8 years. My point is that it doesn't take long to round up 200 bucks if you sacrifice a little. If hunting moose, goat or sheep in MT is really on your bucket list, then suck it up and stop whining. Let's step back and think about what we are doing here...taking a chance at a once in a lifetime opportunity to hunt these animals. This is NOT just throwing money into the wind. We are investing in the future conservation and management of the species so that they can continue to have a thriving population. And in turn, we can keep having opportunities to hunt them. Hunting these special species is not a given right to everyone. They require special management which involves extra cost. MT is STILL 1/2 the price for the tag than neighboring states. If you think it's a rip-off and would rather blow money some other way, more power to you. But me, I'm going to keep my "skin in the game" and ride this out until I either (A) get drawn and harvest or (B) my health tells me otherwise. Now let's rest our typing fingers and put them to better use...like holding a bow or rifle.

 

[Oak]

How much are sheep and moose points in WY?

For me, the difference between the two is that with WY giving high point holders 75% of the tags, I currently have enough points to guarantee a moose tag in some units. I will hold out for a better unit unless it looks like WY will change the tag allocation, and then I will try to draw a tag.

For WY sheep, the odds are slim in the random draw, but they are still about 10x better than MT. And I am only a couple of points away from the point level taken to draw the non-resident sheep tag with the least demand. If WY changes the non-resident allocation like they proposed this year, I will drop out of their sheep draw as well.

I already have one goat, and I am confident I will eventually draw a tag in CO. So that's an easier one to let go. Who, besides mtmiller, needs more than 2 goats?

I would agree with some that say they are not pricing the common guy out of the game. But what they are doing is making that common guy evaluate the ROI on his application and evaluate his application choices more critically. I apply as a non-resident in 10 states, and as the non-refundable application costs increase, I will be more critical in choosing where to spend my money.

As I said before, the agency will not lose money, and I agree with Greenhorn that there will be an increase in applications, especially from residents.

 

[mtmiller]

Who, besides mtmiller, needs more than 2 goats?

I need more than 3. Come on UT or WY.

 

[mixedbag]

At 45, I'm already out of the moose,sheep,goat dream before ever buying points.Till I get drawn, heck i'll be almost 65;if I ever do draw in any state.Was considering Wy. till they started with nr reduction in tags.At least there I'd have a shot in the random draws after a few years.Can't see myself goat or sheep hunting at 65-70 yrs old.and with the line ahead of me that's at least how old I'd be
Good luck to you guys in drawing someday.I will start buying points for my kids though.Maybe by 45 they have a dream hunt.If I really need a sheep or goat, I'll go to Ak.Next year I'm doing Ak for moose.Plus the tags fees in all the other states are simply ridiculous.Mt is fair with the tag feesbut I'd bet they will go up ALOT in the next 5-10 years;talking double to cover the lower number of applicants and be more in line with other states

 

[roadhunter]

Good info fellas. I dropped out of the game in Wyoming sheep last year. Was hard to abandon the hundreds of dollars that I have invested over the years but at some point you have to be real and understand that there are literally thousands of people in line ahead of me and buying a PP every year was just a waste of money. I still have a few deer and elk points I will use someday soon. Likely the only points I will purchase moving forward are Antelope points.

As far as hunting sheep, moose, and goats. Idaho seems like the best opportunity for those tags if you can afford to front the $ for the draw.

 

[MTpubliclander]

I like it.

If I were a NR applying for me would now be an option in MT. At these prices 70 a species I could afford that, I would not have been able to ever front the entire application fee before but now? for one tenth of what it cost before i would do it.
I am however a resident and agree with some of the others that have said they would like to see resident fees go up some. YES right now for me to buy everything to hunt deer elk bear upland birds and go fishing? it costs me 85 bucks resident, I think a ten percent increase in resident license fees would be a great idea. but everyone seems to be hatin on MT all the time and i don't see why, compare us to other western states (most of which have less public property) and their pricing scales for similar tags its not that much different and often less.
I think its more affordable but maybe you are better off to eat out a couple more times a year and say goodbye to your chance to hunt M S &G n Montana but remember the money you do spend is going to the conservation, access and management of Montana wildlife, lands and resources rather than to cabelas or bass pro shops or the big chain stores where a lot of that money gets spent if you don't apply. You will never draw a tag if you don't apply for it.
I like it.

 

[Oak]

I need more than 3. Come on UT or WY.

If you only would have started applying in CO when I told you to.....

 

[Flatrock]

So I looked at the 2012 draw data and here is what I came up with draw odds for NR's:

- I used hunt 122-00, which was one of the more popular but not most popular NR units that year. I started out with point values, then squared that number and added one, which I believe is how you determine how many times your name is in the hat. Then I multiplied that number by the number of applicants in that point pool and came up with a "chances" number. This is basically the number of names that are in the hat for the drawing. So here goes....

0 Points: 0 squared plus 1= 1. 1x57 applicants= 57 chances
1 Point: 1 squared plus 1= 2. 2x67 applicants= 134 chances
2 Points: 2 squared plus 1= 5. 5x51 applicants= 255 chances
3 Points: 3 squared plus 1= 10. 10x57 applicants= 570 chances.
4 Points: 4 squared plus 1= 17. 17x51 applicants= 867 chances
5 Points: 5 squared plus 1= 26. 26x37 applicants= 962 chances
6 Points: 6 squared plus 1= 37. 37x43 applicants= 1,591 chances
7 Points: 7 squared plus 1= 50. 50x39 applicants= 1,950 chances
8 Points: 8 squared plus 1= 65. 65x33 applicants= 2,145 chances
9 Points: 9 squared plus 1= 82. 82x44 applicants= 3,608 chances
10 Points: 10 squared plus 1= 101. 101x54 applicants= 5,454 chances
11 Points: 11 squared plus 1= 122. 122x83 applicants= 10,126 chances

That equals 27,719 chances. So to determine your odds for the 2012 draw in this unit, figure out the number of times that your name would be in the hat and then divide by 27,719. Even with max points, your odds would still only be 0.4%. With 5 points, .09%.

This doesn't take into account resident apps but the way I see it, the NR quota was 1 and so I am mainly competing against those NR's for that 1 tag. If somebody here is bored, try and verify that my numbers aren't way off here....

 

[rmyoung1]

If I were a NR applying for me would now be an option in MT. At these prices 70 a species I could afford that, I would not have been able to ever front the entire application fee before but now? for one tenth of what it cost before i would do it.

This is why credit cards with introductory offers like 0% interest for 18 months were invented. That way you don't have to scratch checks for all this stuff.

 

[The Hedgehog]

So I looked at the 2012 draw data and here is what I came up with draw odds for NR's:

- I used hunt 122-00, which was one of the more popular but not most popular NR units that year. I started out with point values, then squared that number and added one, which I believe is how you determine how many times your name is in the hat. Then I multiplied that number by the number of applicants in that point pool and came up with a "chances" number. This is basically the number of names that are in the hat for the drawing. So here goes....

0 Points: 0 squared plus 1= 1. 1x57 applicants= 57 chances
1 Point: 1 squared plus 1= 2. 2x67 applicants= 134 chances
2 Points: 2 squared plus 1= 5. 5x51 applicants= 255 chances
3 Points: 3 squared plus 1= 10. 10x57 applicants= 570 chances.
4 Points: 4 squared plus 1= 17. 17x51 applicants= 867 chances
5 Points: 5 squared plus 1= 26. 26x37 applicants= 962 chances
6 Points: 6 squared plus 1= 37. 37x43 applicants= 1,591 chances
7 Points: 7 squared plus 1= 50. 50x39 applicants= 1,950 chances
8 Points: 8 squared plus 1= 65. 65x33 applicants= 2,145 chances
9 Points: 9 squared plus 1= 82. 82x44 applicants= 3,608 chances
10 Points: 10 squared plus 1= 101. 101x54 applicants= 5,454 chances
11 Points: 11 squared plus 1= 122. 122x83 applicants= 10,126 chances

That equals 27,719 chances. So to determine your odds for the 2012 draw in this unit, figure out the number of times that your name would be in the hat and then divide by 27,719. Even with max points, your odds would still only be 0.4%. With 5 points, .09%.

This doesn't take into account resident apps but the way I see it, the NR quota was 1 and so I am mainly competing against those NR's for that 1 tag. If somebody here is bored, try and verify that my numbers aren't way off here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

 

[thecrittergitter]

Considering I will likely never hunt moose in MT again, I think I'll plan a trip to AK. Well, heck, September 9-20 sounds like a good time to go whack one in AK, I think I'll do that

 

[BuzzH]

vdo84,

Nope your data is wrong. The up to 10% of the tags is based on a PER REGION basis, not on a unit basis. If theres 20 total sheep tags in the region 1 areas, 2 NR tags could be drawn, and both of them for the same hunting unit.

Until NR's draw the "up to 10%" of the region wide quotas, your odds are the same as residents.

Odds have sucked for a long time in Montana, I didnt draw when lower rock creek had 1:20 odds.

 

[MTGunner]

I have been fortunate enough to draw a MT goat tag that I filled in 2011. I do not believe that I am kidding myself that I will draw a MT sheep tag but I will continue to apply and buy bonus points. To the young people on this forum I truly believe that a MT sheep, goat and moose tag is possible if you are a resident or non resident. The draw odds are long and the cost high, but to draw any one of the big 3 tags is a goal. I checked the $$$$ amount to hunt bighorn sheep in BC and Alberta. OMG, but if I do not draw one in MT by the time I am 70 I will pay the cost. I look at it this way. This is not a dress rehearsal! You go this way but once! Go for it!! MTG

 

[brownbear932008]

LMAO Good one Greenhorn! I think that way every now and then.
I mean I have drawn two moose tags with below 5% odds the first year I applied. Pretty lucky sometimes and to beat that both were picked up on reserve list!

 

[CabinFever]

I'm pretty sure any chance I get at a sheep or goat raffle I throw down more than $70 for the chance and to benefit conservation, and I don't get to build up points for that. I imagine many others on here do the same. If you consider helping fund game management part of conservation, is there much difference?

 

[mr_steve]

This is why credit cards with introductory offers like 0% interest for 18 months were invented. That way you don't have to scratch checks for all this stuff.

I'm fairly certain this is not good for your credit. One should have savings to use temporarily for this. If you cant afford to pay for the tag upfront you probably shouldn't be applying for this tag.

 

[bigskyblueman]

True enough, Montana resident tags are inexpensive, but on balance, it enables entire families to all hunt and put meat in the freezer , teach the kids how to hunt, do it as a family, regardless of income status.

 

[JCW]

I understand that the odds of drawing a tag are low, but they are even lower if you don't apply. Any more math than that and it's above my head.

 

[Flatrock]

Nope your data is wrong.

Well ain't that a B. So what you're trying to say is that the draw odds are considerably worse?

Also, how do the ewe tags affect the 10% allocation? I'm not sure if NR's can draw up to 10% of the ram tags and 10% of the ewe tags or it is just 10% of the "sheep" tags....

 

[Lawnboy]

Everyone choses the way they want to spend their money. I see lines everyday of people buying that cup o Joe at those kiosks. Do the math $5 per cup x 365 = $1825. Even if you don't buy one each day a lot of money spent. It's all about priorities and where we we want to spend them. I'm guilty as the next guy