Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[tjones]

I am not here representing any group, just myself as a concerned resident hunter.

I’m not sure it works that way

I have been involved with hook and bullet groups for better than 30 years. That’s exactly how it works.

 

[Treeshark]

I get where you’re coming from @cgasner1.

When you’re a rep, or especially a chair, you’re always representing your organization- whether officially or unofficially, it doesnt really matter.

It was disappointing to read @John B. Sullivan III recommend an approach specifically targeting NR opportunity. I feel that is misguided, shortsighted and it definitely should make NR hunters reconsider if BHA is a good fit for them.

 

[cgasner1]

I get where you’re coming from @cgasner1.

When you’re a rep, or especially a chair, you’re always representing your organization- whether officially or unofficially, it doesnt really matter.

It was disappointing to read @John B. Sullivan III recommend an approach specifically targeting NR opportunity. I feel that is misguided, shortsighted and it definitely should make NR hunters reconsider if BHA is a good fit for them.

When this all started I was sitting on a board for a group also. It gets exhausting hearing every group blame the nr I get that. At this point when someone goes for that to me it just seems like it’s a talking point.

 

[Treeshark]

I have been involved with hook and bullet groups for better than 30 years. That’s exactly how it works.

I have the honor of serving on boards as well- I completely disagree. You are always representing the organization, that is a responsibility that comes with the privilege.

No worries, we all have our own opinion.

 

[tjones]

When you’re a rep, or especially a chair, you’re always representing your organization- whether officially or unofficially, it doesnt really matter.

Absolutely not correct. Not sure where you come up with this stuff. Regardless of the organization an individual can definitely have his own opinions.


We see it all the time. At commission meetings or legislative hearings the speaker always makes it clear who he is representing.

 

[Treeshark]

individual can definitely have his own opinions.

I agree. Those publicly-shared opinions can and should be treated as a reflection of their organization- especially when they are acting as chair.

You don’t get air-cover or immunity just by claiming you are or are not representing a certain group. You are part of the brand when you serve in a chair position.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Montana Chapter of BHA has no position. We've not seen an official proposal from FW Commission to review. The org is very unlikely to weigh in on specific details of MD management like tag allocation unless there is a major violation of the NAMWM. Org participation in MD management would likely be limited to supporting habitat improvement, new access, etc. (core stuff within our mission). Good questions and thank you for being a member!

I am not representing the organization when I post to HT. If I ever do, I will make it very clear.

Hey john - maybe im not understanding - but from what i know and have learned... reducing NR tag quantity would legislative action.

I dont see that as a change thats feasible.

I agree. Those publicly-shared opinions can and should be treated as a reflection of their organization- especially when they are acting as chair.

You don’t get air-cover or immunity just by claiming you are or are representing a certain group. You are part of the brand when you serve in a chair position.

this is ridiculous man. People dont surrender their individual voices just because they are a member/leader within an org.

 

[Treeshark]

People dont surrender their individual voices just because they are a member/leader within an org.

That is true! Their individual voice becomes connected to the organization, that’s exactly right.

 

[brocksw]

tree must be on the board of one of the outfitter and guide assoc., UPOM, or the Farm Bureau. Because I’m not aware of any other groups trying to destroy the North American model and spit in the face of the public trust doctrine.

But maybe I missed a group.

 

[Treeshark]

tree must be on the board of one of the outfitter and guide assoc., UPOM, or the Farm Bureau. Because I’m not aware of any other groups trying to destroy the North American model and spit in the face of the public trust doctrine.

But maybe I missed a group.

Oh boy, did you ever…

Another time, another thread.

 

[Fire_9]

It was disappointing to read @John B. Sullivan III recommend an approach specifically targeting NR opportunity. I feel that is misguided, shortsighted and it definitely should make NR hunters reconsider if BHA is a good fit for them.

Those of us that actually live here don't think it's misguided or shortsided. FWP, and every other game department, has a responsibility to manage the wildlife and opportunity for the residents of the state. In my opinion, a NR should be content with the opportunity that any other state gives them. I will never complain about cost or tag allocation system in another state because I realize I'm a guest there and they have the right to operate as they see fit.

 

[DFS]

Region 6 and 7 mule deer are getting pounded by nonresidents. It is not unreasonable at all to put a stop to that. It needs to happen.

 

[Treeshark]

Region 6 and 7 mule deer are getting pounded by nonresidents. It is not unreasonable at all to put a stop to that. It needs to happen.

I actually don’t disagree. But the premise that this is the only thing that needs to change is severely flawed in my opinion.

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

I actually don’t disagree. But the premise that this is the only thing that needs to change is severely flawed in my opinion.

That's great, we agree. I don't think anyone said limiting NRs is the only solution to all our problems... but the ever-growing NR pressure is real (see R6 & R7) and it would be silly to ignore it.

 

[Treeshark]

That's great, we agree. I don't think anyone said limiting NRs is the only solution to all our problems... but the ever-growing NR pressure is real (see R6 & R7) and it would be silly to ignore it.

You appear to view that as the main/standalone part of the solution, and I don’t.

The one thing we actually appear agree on is that BHA is no friend of the NR western hunter.

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

You seem to think that is the main part of the solution, and I don’t.

Another thing we appear to unfortunately agree on is that BHA is no friend of the NR western hunter.

You're making wild assumptions about how I "seem to think" and jumping to incorrect conclusions.

Yikes. This is why Hunt Talk can be such a disappointing place.

 

[Treeshark]

I think we should start with limiting NRs before residents. Let's see what happens in a few years and adjust as required.

Cmon now… you’re the one who wrote that, not me. In my view it is either really ignorant (and I know you’re not) or really selfish/pandering.

Regardless- very poor representation of the BHA to any nonresident western hunter who might possibly consider joining- their money is probably better spend elsewhere with leadership like this.

 

[Fire_9]

Regardless- very poor representation of the BHA to any nonresident western hunter who might possibly consider joining- their money is probably better spend elsewhere with leadership like this.

Wow, I think that is quite a stretch. Wouldn't the MT BHA chapter be there to protect the opportunity for MT residents? I'm actually pretty neutral on BHA and would never take one person's opinion as a representation of an organization

 

[Forkyfinder]

Wow, I think that is quite a stretch. Wouldn't the MT BHA chapter be there to protect the opportunity for MT residents? I'm actually pretty neutral on BHA and would never take one person's opinion as a representation of an organization

thats cause your not what @The Hedgehog refers to as a sniveler

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

Cmon now… you’re the one who wrote that, not me. In my view it is either really ignorant (and I know you’re not) or really selfish/pandering.

Regardless- very poor representation of the BHA to any nonresident western hunter who might possibly consider joining- their money is probably better spend elsewhere with leadership like this.

I am also the one who wrote this... "I'm not in favor of a free for all. I'm in favor of strategically moderating pressure. Off the top of my head we can start by eliminating the shoulder seasons, stop selling 3 cow tags over the counter to R's and NR's in LE districts, hold to the 17,000 cap of NR combo licenses, limit MD hunting during MD rut as necessary, improve habitat on public, improve access to public, etc. IMO a combo of all these would show signifiant improvements to hunting experience as well."

You're taking one sentence from one comment and claiming it's my entire view... and doubling down on why Hunt Talk can be such a disappointing place.