Montana Game Wardens

[Sytes]

My opinion, Montana - as one of the most desired states for outdoor / fishing / hunting activity in the U.S. - we should do better than hold our Wardens in the lowest range of pay. We should have our Wardens paid a more appropriate level to reflect the intensity our state presents to protect (as the enforcement arm) what MT cherishes. I would suggest to keep our Wardens within the same pay scale as WY, ND... and ID. NOT the low end.
This is from The Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

[.280 Remington]

You realize reality TV is completely altered, spun and sensationalized for presentation to the masses right? Basing any opinion of what actually happens v. what comes through the boob toob is a terrible way to make decisions.

Wow, I figured TV was as real as the internet. Who would have thought.


Seriously though, if any other LE agency spent as much money enforcing misdemeanors as the FWP, they would get their budget cut right quick.

 

[.280 Remington]

...which is exactly why any organization that relies on integrity and credibility should avoid being part of one. No?

Good point.

 

[BuzzH]

Wow, I figured TV was as real as the internet. Who would have thought.


Seriously though, if any other LE agency spent as much money enforcing misdemeanors as the FWP, they would get their budget cut right quick.

So, its the Wardens fault, that via statute, 99% of wildlife crimes are misdemeanors?

They're not just paid to issue tickets and look for felony convictions.

You know things like protecting the publics wildlife resources, educating the public about wildlife/hunting, wildlife damage claims, public access, the list goes on and on.

 

[jryoung]

Seriously though, if any other LE agency spent as much money enforcing misdemeanors as the FWP, they would get their budget cut right quick.

How much time do they spend? 10, 20 50% of their day? Serious question, just looking for context here and I don't see anything on their website.

 

[.280 Remington]

So, its the Wardens fault, that via statute, 99% of wildlife crimes are misdemeanors?

They're not just paid to issue tickets and look for felony convictions.

You know things like protecting the publics wildlife resources, educating the public about wildlife/hunting, wildlife damage claims, public access, the list goes on and on.

No, its certainly not the wardens' fault, and I agree that they play an important and necessary role.

But getting public support for increased wages will be difficult when you have the FWP assigning multiple officers to police things like the Sun River game range. They plant chips in the sheds then fly around trying to pick up the signals. I have no idea how many hours they sink into such cases, but the non-hunting public is not going to support spending $15,000 to catch a couple of people sneaking horns out early.

 

[BuzzH]

That's because the "public" likes to concentrate on the distraction of one assigned task VS the reality of the view at the 30,000 foot level of what the Wardens are actually tasked with and who is requiring it.

So, what other tasks that wardens perform, are you willing to let the public distract you from in regard to increasing their pay?

Lame argument, the PUBLIC is who passes the laws that the wardens are expected to enforce.

Its not up to the public to pick and choose what laws wardens enforce, they made that choice FOR them. I surely don't want the wardens deciding what laws they want to enforce and those they don't.

 

[.280 Remington]

That's because the "public" likes to concentrate on the distraction of one assigned task VS the reality of the view at the 30,000 foot level of what the Wardens are actually tasked with and who is requiring it.

So, what other tasks that wardens perform, are you willing to let the public distract you from in regard to increasing their pay?

Lame argument, the PUBLIC is who passes the laws that the wardens are expected to enforce.

Its not up to the public to pick and choose what laws wardens enforce, they made that choice FOR them. I surely don't want the wardens deciding what laws they want to enforce and those they don't.

Buzz, I am not trying to argue with you. I am simply giving you my explanation for the low wages.

What is your explanation?

 

[JLS]

Wow, I figured TV was as real as the internet. Who would have thought.


Seriously though, if any other LE agency spent as much money enforcing misdemeanors as the FWP, they would get their budget cut right quick.

Bullshit. The majority of all MHP citations are misdemeanor also. Does that make them less legitimate in terms of the wage they make?

Keith Bales tried to make 2nd offense trespassing a felony. Would that make wardens more deserving of a pay raise?

Given the fact that hunting and fishing brings in millions of dollars to the state's economy, I would think that the role that game wardens play in perpetuating and sustaining this industry would rise above tickets.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, I am not trying to argue with you. I am simply giving you my explanation for the low wages.

What is your explanation?

You already answered it, an uninformed, distracted public, combined with a legislature that thinks wardens should work for free...

 

[Blacktailbc]

For some reason, many people seem to think that just because someone works for the government, they should do it just out of the goodness of their hearts..........basically for free. Good working conditions and big skys don't pay bills.

 

[.280 Remington]

Bullshit. The majority of all MHP citations are misdemeanor also. Does that make them less legitimate in terms of the wage they make?

Keith Bales tried to make 2nd offense trespassing a felony. Would that make wardens more deserving of a pay raise?

Given the fact that hunting and fishing brings in millions of dollars to the state's economy, I would think that the role that game wardens play in perpetuating and sustaining this industry would rise above tickets.

Actually I wasn't commenting on the "legitimacy" of their work with that comment. As I stated above, wardens are very necessary. I think in addition to MHP, you could probably say that police and sheriff departments write a majority of misdemeanor tickets too.

What I was trying to say is that the FWP puts a ton of resources into cases that only amount to misdemeanors.

This case is a perfect example: http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/enforcement/nr_0203.html

I think that most hunters and anglers and probably even the general public are not satisfied with the sentences those guys received. And yet, that case took hundreds of hours of investigation, forensic testing, etc. You just don't see that kind of resource allocation to individual misdemeanor cases in general law enforcement such as MHP.

I don't know who Keith Bales is, so I can't comment on felony trespassing. I do think that these larger poaching schemes should probably be felonies, and I think that the public would be more supportive of funding if that were the case.

In the mean time, relax a bit.

 

[The Hedgehog]

You can't survive in a place like Bozeman, Missoula, and a few other towns on 40K, unless you plan on living in somebody's basement, or having a better paying spouse. Resident hunters need to ante up more and whine less.

 

[mtmuley]

Misdemeanor or not, the case you referenced is exactly the kind of $hit that wardens should be working on. It takes a major violation to constitute a felony where game laws are concerned. Dirtbags like that may eventually move toward more serious violations, but I would rather they be stopped first. mtmuley

 

[JLS]

I'm relaxed just fine, thanks for your concern.

I'm struggling here though, trying to connect the dots in that the wage a cop makes should parallel the level of sentences/convictions that they deal with. Is that all game wardens serve to the folks of Montana? As I said, hunting and fishing brings in many millions of dollars to the state, at many different levels. THAT should be the issue that is reflective on what game wardens are worth, not the monetary level of the citations that they issue.

If the resource protection is only worth what is currently being paid, great. Be willing to accept the fact that there will be recruitment and retention problems for many years to come. There will come a point that misdemeanor vs. felony will be the least of the public's worries.

 

[antlerradar]

I wonder if Keith would have been on board with making harassing hunters with an airplane a felony.

antlerradar

 

[Sytes]

You can't survive in a place like Bozeman, Missoula, and a few other towns on 40K, unless you plan on living in somebody's basement, or having a better paying spouse. Resident hunters need to ante up more and whine less.

Amen!

 

[Western_Hunter]

They'd make more if they didn't spend thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to catch people who were supposedly illegally outfitting hunters. Read about the sheep they stole from each and everyone of the sportsman here> http://www.lobowatch.org/adminclient/mt-fwp/go

 

[Gellar]

First, I am not a warden, but I work with them daily in Iowa. Jobs in the conservation field are very competitive. I have had summer seasonals who after college were unable to get a job in their home area as a warden so they had to leave state to gain experience. They had no desire to stay in that state for their career. As soon as they were able to gain enough experience to get a job in their home state they were gone.

 

[Carnage2011]

They'd make more if they didn't spend thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to catch people who were supposedly illegally outfitting hunters. Read about the sheep they stole from each and everyone of the sportsman here> http://www.lobowatch.org/adminclient/mt-fwp/go

Did you just quote Lobo watch? That is definitely not a reliable source.