I can't believe they can't fill these positions!

[Deleted member 28227]

I think 10 years is too long. No matter the time frame I would require that the person be in good standing with their student loan debt and be working towards payoff. I don’t want people to take out loans and keep putting them on deferral because they know if they work for X time for the agency they will have their loans paid off.

For PSLF you don’t get credit if they are in forbearance, and with any student loan you have a finite amount of time they can be in forbearance.

I always thought 10% a year made more sense.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Again, I cannot agree.

Critical thinking and college degrees are unrelated subjects as best I can tell. And whatever benefit an employer may see from their degree is just as likely to be offset by the mountain of entitlement they think the world owes them.

I will grant you that the best future employees likely do go through college but it's only because society has imprinted that expectation on them. College certainly doesn't create any, or much, value in the process.

And I will completely agree on the need for higher wages, but I see that as independent of education requirements.

There was an interview a while back with a big investment bank CEO, the interviewer asked what is the value to the company of a Harvard/ Ivy/ elite school eduction over a state school given that the actual course work was pretty similar.

His response, the admissions process. It’s incredibly hard and expensive to vet candidates. The admissions process is extremely rigorous and then completing the degree is a confirmation of the candidate. Their company knows that if they hire someone who went to an Ivy that they will probably be able to show up and do the work and meet deadlines.

 

[Irrelevant]

I get that, but I would guess you gained something in getting that degree that stays with you. First and most important, you voluntarily signed up to work hard and actually completed the degree. You probably learned things like being able to handle criticism and maybe failure, how to work with people different from you, basic listening, and critical thought, etc.

I did not. Nor did the vast majority of my social circle. I've personally never talked to a single person who felt college accurately prepared them for the workforce.

But I don't really think they want an 19yo kid who chose not to go to college and cut grass for his uncle over summer while partying with his buddies to throw his app in the pile. Almost all of the Wardens I encountered were solo. Handing that kid a gun and uniform and telling him to enforce a bunch of often complex laws seems like a recipe for bad things happening.

But they want a 22 yr who's partied hard for 4 years, cut grass over the summer, and now has a mountain of debt?

Idk... Clearly there are completely different educational experiences out there. I would say there are numerous things on my list that were more influential to my development as a responsible human than college ever was. And most of them are associated with growing up in a small town. College you're just a number, like some massive educational factory, and all you're trying to get out of it is a piece of paper and and number, the higher the better.

 

[longbow51]

A long time ago, when I was working as a chemist, they had a co-op engineering program. So, after the first year of school, one semester of school, one at work, paid not as an engineer but pretty well. Took a little longer to graduate, but tons of practical experience, which made them very attractive candidates. Obviously, the plan was to keep them at the company; usually worked.

In this case, would also weed out those who thought they wanted to be wardens, but found out it wasn't for them. They can reboot early without getting a degree which will be less than useful.

This is similar to the ride-along/internship things discussed here, but was codified by the University. In places which place a high degree of emphasis on outdoor recreation, seems easy enough.

Heck, we've got enough in this discussion to formulate a plan for action. Bureaucracy is a huge ship to turn, though.

 

[SAJ-99]

I did not. Nor did the vast majority of my social circle. I've personally never talked to a single person who felt college accurately prepared them for the workforce.

WHOA!!! I never said THAT. I simply meant you learned a lot in college that helped you when you exited and became a tax-paying member of society. Maybe that maturity would have happened anyway? Probably, at least to some degree. But maybe college or the military is an accelerant? The only people that think college accurately prepared them for the workforce is recent college grads. And they only think that for about three weeks after they start their first job.

But they want a 22 yr who's partied hard for 4 years, cut grass over the summer, and now has a mountain of debt?

Hey, doing a calculus exam hungover is a skill that shouldn't be marginalized.

Most public universities are pretty cheap with substantial needs-based assistance. And the student can also get a job. If the cost of learning is really the only decision, Electrician school is cheaper or someone can go to community college and transfer credits toward their degree. This idea that everyone that exits college is swimming in debt is not true. However, we can fix that by having governments increase funding to all post-secondary education/training, regardless if it is college or being a nurse, electrician, carpenter, whatever. Doing nothing shouldn't be an option. There is a labor shortage that everyone is complaining about, but no one wants to invest money in fixing.