BigHornRam
Well-known member
I think the one and only anti gun skinny jean hipster climate refugee in Browning just bought a one way plane ticket back to California, Ben.
Major Climate Change Rules the Trump Administration Is Reversing
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sapperJ24
Well-known member
Scientists may have individual bias, but the observations and data does not. It is simply a measure of the reality of whatever we're looking at. I do not let my personal beliefs interfere with the data we collect, I let the data speak for itself regardless of its implications for my feelings. And thankfully the folks I work with share that sentiment.
Those ones are all moving to Ravalli county.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
So interpretation of the data is where politics enter into the science field. Intested in the grizzly bear data that you collected that has been misinterpreted. Link?
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
The data either confirms or denies the hypothesis, resulting in either a valid scientific conclusion or an invalid theory.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Missoula County has a much more suitable climate for them.
I dare you guys to wear skinny jeans in Browning. mtmuley
TwistedSage
Well-known member
It's easy to play devils advocate on both sides of the debate and since it has been tied to political platforms there has been so much bs tied to it. "It" being climate change.
I do not think any reasonable person can deny the climate changes. As it has been changing since the earth was formed as far as we know. What I would like to see is non biased research on how much mans activity relates to climate change and if it is rapidly changing right now or if it is on a normal ebb and flow.
How is the environment tied to climate change? Obviously pollution is bad for the environment. I beleive soil, ground water, and seawater pollution will ruin out earth's resources before the climate does. I also believe the contamination of the above is a bigger issue than the byproduct or burning fossil fuels for energy. I feel that energy production being used as cutting edge of climate change is why this is all so fudged. So much potential money to be made. So many questions to answer before we cover the landscape with renewable energy sources. I would love to see more research in offshore generated renewable energy before we alter the limited surface area of the earth.
I dont believe for a second oil and gas extraction will stop it will just be exported to another country that still uses it for even more money. The market is has been pushing in the direction of more efficient energy all on it's own.
The wrong people got a hold of the narrative and now we are so far from a real understanding its almost comical. Especially dogging on livestock Ag as a big contributor to this crisis. Id love to hear a politician or green activist explain to me how 30 or 40 cows grazing 600 acres of native pasture that have never even been broken out for cultivation is somehow worse for the climate than plowing it all up using it for whatever plant based green diet and ruining the biodiversity of the land.
I do not think any reasonable person can deny the climate changes. As it has been changing since the earth was formed as far as we know. What I would like to see is non biased research on how much mans activity relates to climate change and if it is rapidly changing right now or if it is on a normal ebb and flow.
How is the environment tied to climate change? Obviously pollution is bad for the environment. I beleive soil, ground water, and seawater pollution will ruin out earth's resources before the climate does. I also believe the contamination of the above is a bigger issue than the byproduct or burning fossil fuels for energy. I feel that energy production being used as cutting edge of climate change is why this is all so fudged. So much potential money to be made. So many questions to answer before we cover the landscape with renewable energy sources. I would love to see more research in offshore generated renewable energy before we alter the limited surface area of the earth.
I dont believe for a second oil and gas extraction will stop it will just be exported to another country that still uses it for even more money. The market is has been pushing in the direction of more efficient energy all on it's own.
The wrong people got a hold of the narrative and now we are so far from a real understanding its almost comical. Especially dogging on livestock Ag as a big contributor to this crisis. Id love to hear a politician or green activist explain to me how 30 or 40 cows grazing 600 acres of native pasture that have never even been broken out for cultivation is somehow worse for the climate than plowing it all up using it for whatever plant based green diet and ruining the biodiversity of the land.
sci·en·tif·ic meth·od
noun
noun: scientific method; plural noun: scientific methods
noun
noun: scientific method; plural noun: scientific methods
- a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
What's left of the affordable housing is in Ravalli. Prepare for democratic legislators within the next 6 years.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
As described by a couple of locals witnessing a convenience store robbery in Browning, "There was those skinny-jean two one-guys running out with a bag and heading down there."
(True, with exception of the skinny-jean reference.)
(True, with exception of the skinny-jean reference.)
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Climate data has confirmed that the hockey stick models were invalid. Acknowledging that would help restore trust in climate science, no?
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Don't know anything about hockey sticks and climate, but the linked factoids and opinion is interesting concerning the Arctic.
Act now to prevent Arctic warming before it's too late
We may be looking at 2044 (yes, 25 years from now) as our limit for bringing global warming under control.
www.greatfallstribune.com
sapperJ24
Well-known member
I am not published so thankfully my work has not been misinterpreted. But here is Rick Mace's paper that resulted in the bears dont cross roads idea. Also an article about him, pertinent quotes at the bottom.
“Stick to the science, stick to the grizzly facts and don’t be swayed by politics. I learned a long time ago it’s complicated trying to be an advocate and a scientist at the same time, whether you’re working on cancer research or grizzly bear protections,” Mace said.
“I went into wildlife biology because I like animals, but I didn’t go into it to ‘save’ animals. And I’m not working to ‘save’ grizzlies, I’m working to get the most complete information on grizzlies so people can make informed decisions.”
Relationships Among Grizzly Bears, Roads and Habitat in the Swan Mountains Montana on JSTOR
1. Relationships between grizzly bears, habitat, and roads were investigated between 1990 and 1994 in the Swan Mountains, Montana. Relationships were examined a...
www.jstor.org
40 years of bears
In 1976, University of Montana student Rick Mace walked into his advisers office to inquire about classes he
www.dailyinterlake.com
The problem with all this, and with the apparent lost trust of the scientific community is that it appears from the outside like the results can be bought and paid for. Both sides have been caught exaggerating for "their side". A lot of the problems stem from some scientists obviously, in fact taking, a "side" instead of just presenting the data.
If there is a definitive right or wrong, present the case, don't appear to manipulate or massage data to make it say anything it doesn't just say. Test your hypothesis, then retest it exhaustively to make sure the results are repeatable, then show us what you have found.
I personally believe that it's ridiculous to think that a biomass as large and intrusive as humanity is has no effect on the environment that could lead to impacts on the greater climate. The problem is, research that shows this to be the case has been tainted by known efforts to distort other research, and by drastic models that have proven consistently wrong. I feel there are some scientists with an agenda, and unfortunately they are very loud, and have eroded some trust.
If there is a definitive right or wrong, present the case, don't appear to manipulate or massage data to make it say anything it doesn't just say. Test your hypothesis, then retest it exhaustively to make sure the results are repeatable, then show us what you have found.
I personally believe that it's ridiculous to think that a biomass as large and intrusive as humanity is has no effect on the environment that could lead to impacts on the greater climate. The problem is, research that shows this to be the case has been tainted by known efforts to distort other research, and by drastic models that have proven consistently wrong. I feel there are some scientists with an agenda, and unfortunately they are very loud, and have eroded some trust.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Thanks! Good reading.I am not published so thankfully my work has not been misinterpreted. But here is Rick Mace's paper that resulted in the bears dont cross roads idea. Also an article about him, pertinent quotes at the bottom.
“Stick to the science, stick to the grizzly facts and don’t be swayed by politics. I learned a long time ago it’s complicated trying to be an advocate and a scientist at the same time, whether you’re working on cancer research or grizzly bear protections,” Mace said.
“I went into wildlife biology because I like animals, but I didn’t go into it to ‘save’ animals. And I’m not working to ‘save’ grizzlies, I’m working to get the most complete information on grizzlies so people can make informed decisions.”
Relationships Among Grizzly Bears, Roads and Habitat in the Swan Mountains Montana on JSTOR
1. Relationships between grizzly bears, habitat, and roads were investigated between 1990 and 1994 in the Swan Mountains, Montana. Relationships were examined a...40 years of bears
In 1976, University of Montana student Rick Mace walked into his advisers office to inquire about classes hewww.dailyinterlake.com
sapperJ24
Well-known member
I don't know much about this controversy but a quick read of Wikipedia provided this,
"More than two dozen reconstructions, using various statistical methods and combinations of proxy records, have supported the broad consensus shown in the original 1998 hockey-stick graph, with variations in how flat the pre-20th century "shaft" appears.[12][17] The 2007 IPCC Fourth Assessment Report cited 14 reconstructions, 10 of which covered 1,000 years or longer, to support its strengthened conclusion that it was likely that Northern Hemisphere temperatures during the 20th century were the highest in at least the past 1,300 years.[18] Over a dozen subsequent reconstructions, including Mann et al. 2008 and PAGES 2k Consortium 2013, have supported these general conclusions"
Perhaps this is out of date, do you have a link for more up to date work? One of the great things about the scientific method is your position can evolve as more and better information becomes available.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
From your opinion piece S. A.Don't know anything about hockey sticks and climate, but the linked factoids and opinion is interesting concerning the Arctic.
Act now to prevent Arctic warming before it's too late
We may be looking at 2044 (yes, 25 years from now) as our limit for bringing global warming under control.www.greatfallstribune.com
"Perhaps most significantly, permafrost (which holds twice as much CO2 as the atmosphere) is collapsing at an alarming rate. Worse, the melting permafrost is releasing immense amounts of methane, which is a 25-times more potent greenhouse gas than CO2."
60 minutes had a piece on this. Solution proposed by some of the "scientists" on this segment was to bring back the mastodon. I kid you not!
Siberia's Pleistocene Park: Bringing back pieces of the Ice Age to combat climate change
With Arctic permafrost thawing too quickly, scientists in Siberia are considering drastic measures. Scott Pelley reports
www.cbsnews.com
BigHornRam
Well-known member
I would not rely on wikepidia for anything.
Dig into the work Dr Christy has done and let me know what you think. Biased? Maybe.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
I had watched that ... and the old fellow who looked as though he was there with the original mastodons!
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