Losses at the Forest Service

[elkduds]

He damn sure delivered fast on the boarder. We’re a couple weeks in. I’m not going to rush to judgment that quick.

Trump's military deportation flights cost more, carry fewer migrants

The Trump administration has carried out 10 deportations on military planes. The flights cost more and move fewer, an El Paso Times analysis found.

www.elpasotimes.com

 

[sapperJ24]

The policy is that they can only hire 1 person for every 4 people that are removed/ retired.

There isn't going to be any fixing America's forests.

I realize that many of you don't care and many are cheering this on, but for those that are concerned or interested, here's where things are on my local district.

16 probationary employees were fired yesterday with more expected today. All 16 of these employees were dedicated, hardworking, and public-facing employees. Among these 16 are the entirety of the district's trail clearing program, a developed recreation employee, a river ranger, a silviculturist, and front desk representative. These employees were offered a permanent position last year due to their skills and experience; there was a long list of applicants for these positions. This was not a reduction in underperforming employees. All of these employees also supported wildland fire operations as militia personnel, public information officers, or in other supporting roles.

To be clear, although these employees received a termination memo that stated, "The agency finds, based on your performance, that you have not demonstrated that your further employment at the Agency would be in the public interest," this termination was not based on performance.

Just to bring this back around to the original focus, this was an elimination of the most hardworking and vulnerable employees. As others have mentioned, this will result in additional uncleared trails, uncleaned campgrounds, littered rivers, and reduced public information regarding wildfires and other activities.

 

[more_cowbell]

When I look at the big picture I see all the warning signs of us careening towards an autocratic government run by billionaires.

But we won't know for sure until in response to this comment, a van pulls up to your house in the middle of the night and you're hauled off, never heard from again. Just like in the old Soviet Union.

 

[Forkyfinder]

If we cut 100% of discretionary spending (including defense) and extend the 2017 tax cuts, and assume receipts remain the same (which they won't) we could almost balance the budget.

There is no budget cutting our way out of this.

Oh there is. Social security is the easy button. But itll never get reformed to either slash spending (increase age, means testing, decrease payouts) or increase revenues (remove cap, increase rate).

Whats happening with the FS sucks. I dont disagree with the mission of cutting spending, but focusing on the govt employment as a cost thats important is like cutting an occasional soda out of your budget when you have a high interest payment on a platinum superduty.

 

[INMT]

I realize that many of you don't care and many are cheering this on, but for those that are concerned or interested, here's where things are on my local district.

16 probationary employees were fired yesterday with more expected today. All 16 of these employees were dedicated, hardworking, and public-facing employees. Among these 16 are the entirety of the district's trail clearing program, a developed recreation employee, a river ranger, a silviculturist, and front desk representative. These employees were offered a permanent position last year due to their skills and experience; there was a long list of applicants for these positions. This was not a reduction in underperforming employees. All of these employees also supported wildland fire operations as militia personnel, public information officers, or in other supporting roles.

To be clear, although these employees received a termination memo that stated, "The agency finds, based on your performance, that you have not demonstrated that your further employment at the Agency would be in the public interest," this termination was not based on performance.

Just to bring this back around to the original focus, this was an elimination of the most hardworking and vulnerable employees. As others have mentioned, this will result in additional uncleared trails, uncleaned campgrounds, littered rivers, and reduced public information regarding wildfires and other activities.

Such bullchit! Sorry to hear that. It’s unfortunate the lowest hanging fruit are the hardest working folks.

There was a large amount of USFS employees transitioned to career seasonals last year that I’m guessing will be affected by this.

 

[BigHornRam]

If we cut 100% of discretionary spending (including defense) and extend the 2017 tax cuts, and assume receipts remain the same (which they won't) we could almost balance the budget.

There is no budget cutting our way out of this.

So what you are saying is, we are all playing this game with monopoly money.

 

[Treeshark]

It’s unfortunate the lowest hanging fruit are the hardest working folks.

That is one of the many downsides of a union. Public service unions do not serve the public well.

 

[El Jason]

Not disagreeing but when hasn't dough ran the show?

I’ll just remain a hopelessly altruistic public servant, who values the Constitution and civil liberties more than a dollar. It’s hard to believe anyone trusts the folks currently driving the clown car anymore than the last bunch.

 

[INMT]

@Treeshark What union? Most probationary employees aren’t represented by any union nor have the same civil service protections as perms. That’s IS why they are being targeted.

 

[Treeshark]

@Treeshark What union? Most probationary employees aren’t represented by any union nor have the same civil service protections as perms. That’s IS why they are being targeted.

I know. That’s my point.

 

[Forkyfinder]

@Treeshark What union? Most probationary employees aren’t represented by any union nor have the same civil service protections as perms. That’s IS why they are being targeted.

I think thats his point - they arent provided union protection.

 

[INMT]

I know. That’s my point.

Copy. Misread

 

[Treeshark]

Copy. Misread

No worries, I was pretty vague.

This is a tough issue. I feel for everyone who has lost their job and has had their family affected by this.

 

[sapperJ24]

Such bullchit! Sorry to hear that. It’s unfortunate the lowest hanging fruit are the hardest working folks.

There was a large amount of USFS employees transitioned to career seasonals last year that I’m guessing will be affected by this.

Correct. All of these 16 employees had multiple years (3-15) as temporary seasonal (1039) employees before being offered the chance to apply as a permanent season (13/13) with benefits and retain their position. There were twice as many 1039's as perm positions available, so the district already lost capacity there. And yeah, extra frustrating to have been treated as expendable 1039 employees over the years while they developed skills and built experience, only to be offered a chance for some stability and possibly a career, and have it yanked away after 9 months.

 

[Bonasababy]

But we won't know for sure until in response to this comment, a van pulls up to your house in the middle of the night and you're hauled off, never heard from again. Just like in the old Soviet Union.

We should be much more worried about Russia with the current administration working so hard to give them what they want!

 

[Nameless Range]

I didn't vote for Trump, but I'm pulling for these policies to work for the betterment of the country, I wish more people cared about that vs worrying that the other side may actually do some good.

I agree with this, and one of the real issues with the red vs blue dynamic is that any criticism of the other is too easily dismissed because all they do is criticize the other. There's plenty of insanity one can leverage in pointing to the other that they think justifies their own. There's been some things I think are a real improvement.

For the OP though, which really ties into hunting, fishing, trapping, and general outdoor recreation, as to the USFS I think there is real reason for concern and for me at least, it's not grounded in rooting for the failure of some administration. Something almost no one does, and something I have encouraged my friends who are apoplectic about Trump to do, is to write down their predictions. What, specifically, do you think will happen? I think if folks had done this in 2016 under Trump's first term, and then revisited their predictions, there would be some moderation - or at least a recognition that most folks just say stuff and don't know what the hell they are talking about. People are afraid to make predictions, because it might reveal their beliefs don't pay rent.


To the OP in question: I predict a degradation in response from the USFS on infrastructure. No improvement on-net in the state of campgrounds, roads, latrines - probably a degradation. Increased homeless use and a poorer response in dealing with it. I predict weed control, which is already subpar, to be even worse. I predict the USFS will not be engaging in any grassroots efforts at landscape level work - like the Lincoln Prosperity Proposal. I predict further detachment from local working groups. I predict even more public accesses being lost and opportunities at acquisition missed due to staffing or bigwig directives. I expect some administrative/litigation based hurdles to be removed/reduced on projects, which on-net I see as good for those, but on-net I would expect increased use of Forest Service lands by the public, and lower quality of public experience over time. The USFS tracks visitor information through National Visitor Use Monitoring Program but I wonder what their resource constraints are now. A lot of this may have happened anyway, but in what way are these changes being alleviated by canning a workforce that now represents over 6,000 acres per staff member - a portion of which are actually out in the woods?

In 1985 there were 29,200 USFS employees. Today after the firings, there are about 32,000 - that's a 10% increase in staffing over 40 years. In 1985, there were 226 million Americans. Today, there are 334 million - a 40+% increase. Figure in user-days increase and I'd wager it's worse. Figure in user-days increase in the west, and you wonder what outcome do those who defend these cuts actually think is realistic for our USFS public lands.

 

[longbow51]

I truly am trying to to be, but I really struggle when King Elon lies about sending $50 million to Gaza for condoms, or JD Vance says the judicial branch has no authority over the executive branch.

What else is Elon lying about? Look at his business practices in China. It’s concerning. I would walk before I’d buy support his business. Nothing in his “efficiency audit” is efficient. It’s shock and awe political hay IMO.

When I look at the big picture I see all the warning signs of us careening towards an autocratic government run by billionaires.

He made a mistake, admitted it was to Mozambique, and on national TV. What politician ever admits a mistake? Still a lot of money.

 

[huntmtelk]

Can't wait for the tissue shortage with all the whining that's happening here. I feel for the employees that lost their jobs but something drastic needed to happen or our whole country would be bankrupt anyways. Anything you are saying or predicting is a moot point. Maybe take a deep breath and let the dust settle before claiming the apocalypse is coming. Can't wait for hunting season to get here and turn this forum back in to what everyone enjoys. Carry on.........

 

[elkduds]

Old posts about Eric and Don Jr. having Trump's ear to protect hunting, fishing and public lands ring hollow. We must speak with one unified voice that we value our public lands, make that point at every opportunity to legislators, media, friends, coworkers, social groups, bartenders, barbers, relatives. . .

 

[El Jason]

He made a mistake, admitted it was to Mozambique, and on national TV. What politician ever admits a mistake? Still a lot of money.

Corrected his mistake weeks later, after it was repeated, amplified and exaggerated.

I believe in accurate information up front. Not ready, fire, aim.