Is rock climbing compatible with Wilderness designation

[MTGomer]

Interesting article here. I’ve never thought about this. My initial take is that regulating rock bolts is a bit too far, but I know almost nothing about climbing.

What say you?

Feds propose climbing bolt regulation, restriction

The dueling congressional and executive-agency proposals deal with climbing bolts, particularly in wilderness areas, and have divided climbers and other conservationists over how the Wilderness Act should be interpreted and implemented across the U.S.

billingsgazette.com

 

[billy_56081]

Minnesota doesn't allow screw in tree steps or cutting shooting lanes on public land.

 

[JT88]

I've thought about this before. I'm not a climber and don't really care, but I do feel like it seems like a double standard. But personally, I believe the land should be enjoyed responsibly.

Some people jeopardize that for all of us, but that can mean both abuse and over regulation

 

[GrantK]

in most cases the use of bolted anchors is a step in trying to reduce visual impact, keeping people on a single descent line, the other alternative being a bunch of rat's nest of tat that people actually will notice, I'd bet almost everyone on this forum has walked past a ton of bolts in rock and never noticed them, what's not said in that article is that bolts in wilderness areas are hand drilled... it's super inconvenient to place a bolt so just by that their use is kept to the minimum absolutely required...

 

[Nameless Range]

Interesting article. I don't have strong opinions, but my brother was a climber and obsessed with it for decades. In my experience, Rock Climbers are some of the most self-absorbed people on the landscape. Maybe even approaching hunters in that realm.

On one hand, bolts are a very small footprint that 99% of the public will never be aware of. On the other, they are a semi-permanent infrastructure affixed to the landscape, and permanently leave an imprint regardless of how small.

More and more, I think the concept of big W Wilderness is too rigid, and is working against itself in terms of being a model for new big chunks of earth adopting stringent and permanent protections - something I think would be good. So, though I can see how in big W, though small, it would be consistent to prohibit bolts, I 'm less sure that it's a wise restriction in the big picture.

 

[FREAK]

Good luck regulating it, I'm not saying that's a good reason to not comply but it's kind of like trying to regulate guys from stashing camps in the backcountry.

 

[Irrelevant]

IDK either, but sitting in the Cirque of Towers, watching the sun set, then having dozens of headlamps light up on every rock face within view sure sucked much of the wilderness feel from the setting. I lean pretty hard into making everything associated with Wilderness harder and more dangerous.

 

[MTGomer]

some of the most self-absorbed people on the landscape.

in case you glossed over it, this is about climbers, not mountain bikers and fly fishermen.

 

[rjthehunter]

Minnesota doesn't allow screw in tree steps or cutting shooting lanes on public land.

They claim that's because it kills trees. I've hunted plenty of private land for whitetails and never killed a tree by using screw in steps!

 

[Bambistew]

in most cases the use of bolted anchors is a step in trying to reduce visual impact, keeping people on a single descent line, the other alternative being a bunch of rat's nest of tat that people actually will notice, I'd bet almost everyone on this forum has walked past a ton of bolts in rock and never noticed them, what's not said in that article is that bolts in wilderness areas are hand drilled... it's super inconvenient to place a bolt so just by that their use is kept to the minimum absolutely required...

I know of few routes that were put in in the 90s using a cordless Hilti drill. I'd be pretty impressed if there was many routes actually put in with a hand drill.

How many routes are we talking? I can't imagine its that many, but supposed it could be in areas where climbing is easily accessible.

Would a bolt be on the same level as a trail camera? Both are just trash in the woods IMO.

 

[billy_56081]

They claim that's because it kills trees. I've hunted plenty of private land for whitetails and never killed a tree by using screw in steps!

I agree but it is law here. I have never seen the DNR enforce this regulation though.

 

[GrantK]

IDK either, but sitting in the Cirque of Towers, watching the sun set, then having dozens of headlamps light up on every rock face within view sure sucked much of the wilderness feel from the setting. I lean pretty hard into making everything associated with Wilderness harder and more dangerous.

I don't disagree, but it's not a bolts thing in that case, it's easy routes that are on the 50 classic climbs list, gumbies from across the world want to climb them...
Up to 3 years ago there were zero regularly used bolted anchors on wolf's head or pingora, now there's 5, and about 40 random tat anchors were removed and reduced to that... you could go back to zero bolts in the cirque and unfortunately it wouldn't change the crowding.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Not high on my list of concerns, but I always felt like wilderness should be natural protection only. Truly, sometimes I think chalk is more of an eyesore than the bolts…

 

[MTLabrador]

in case you glossed over it, this is about climbers, not mountain bikers and fly fishermen.

You forgot skiers.

The ghost of Douglasr is getting extremely high and very irate reading this thread from the outside looking in.

 

[Irrelevant]

I don't disagree, but it's not a bolts thing in that case, it's easy routes that are on the 50 classic climbs list, gumbies from across the world want to climb them...
Up to 3 years ago there were zero regularly used bolted anchors on wolf's head or pingora, now there's 5, and about 40 random tat anchors were removed and reduced to that... you could go back to zero bolts in the cirque and unfortunately it wouldn't change the crowding.

Fair enough. Thanks for setting me straight on that one.

 

[David658]

Bolts and pitons are old school. Being old myself, old school is not always bad. But climbing has progressed, and so has the hardware, past the point where bolts should be placed anymore. Personally, I find it high on the pucker factor to use any hardware I didn't place (or one of my friends that I trusted).
I've not climbed for a few decades, but back then pitons had become decorations for the trophy wall, and bolts were definitely considered unethical.
Restriction of or removal of bolts will restrict some routes to top level climbers, but tough. If you aren't good enough, go climb someplace else.

David
NM
Former climber, now too old and fat

 

[atlas]

Some places you absolutely need bolts to climb. Nuts and cams only work in cracks. If the wall doesn’t have cracks you aren’t climbing without bolts.

 

[atlas]

I’ve heard that in the Bitterroot there are some very anti climbing people that have gone into a few of the canyons and ripped out belay platforms people have built out with rocks and cut off the lowest bolts.

I think it’s more that they hate college kids coming from Missoula than any wilderness ethic.

 

[atlas]

I’ve seen plenty of bolts on wooden bridges in the wilderness…

 

[Hem]

Few bolts overhead, few thrown horseshoes on the trail.

Fly fishing, mtb single track, tele turns...proud of it.