Im bowing out

[JAG]

Did you just compare Montana's economy to Colorado's?

Um, yeaah! Haven't you seen Yellowstone!?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You kill one eastern white tail and all of a sudden the east is the cats ass. Shameful

If hunting was illegal in MA Boston would still be waaaaay better than Denver.

Now a place like Rochester... not even close.

There are a lot of factors that influence where is a good spot for every individual, me included. Lots of good reasons for me to return to CO at some point... family, job...

but if your not in OG/tech/defense and you don't really really want to be able to ski all the time. I honestly don't know why you would live in Denver. If you legitimately like city things...I mean Chicago, or Houston... I really like Dallas. On the flip side if you really like outdoors stuff (that aren't mt specific) midwest hands down or the south, if you like mountain stuff, I'll say it New England. Vermont has more options for skiing + biking, and it's like it was in CO 20 years ago. Mom and pop areas, no lift lines. Nothing like the dumpster fire of CA or WA traffic.

Now maybe 20+ years ago, I get moving to CO/Denver, and if your in your late 40s-50s and you have assets and you want to stay I understand that as well.

But if your retiring, and you don't want to ski and bike in retirement or if your in your late 20s or 30s and want to start a family... and again mountains aren't really really important to you. Denver/ Colorado is not the place to be, why spend your life paying way to much for housing, and sitting in traffic all the time.

Just saying if I was 65 and didn’t ski, and had my CO house paid off I’d be looking at property in Arkansas.

 

[Pagosa]

I built a 2400 sq/ft duplex 2016, purchased the land in 2014, total cost were at $95.00 per sq ft, including land, my free labor, and materials. Same place is under contract in 13 days for $341 per sq/ft. It will take 20 years to recoup that amount of rent for the new owners. Lots of people are borrowing against their primary home and using the 20% for down payments. It’s a shaking slope, and I’m no real estate professional, but there will be a major correction.

Pricing out materials for our house that burned is around $207,000, this will include sub-contracting the mechanical, drywall, main electrical service, and no utilities. I’m using icfs for the exterior walls, sip panels for roof, and building my own timber trusses. Windows have the longest lead time at 19 weeks through Sierra Pacific, most everything else is 4-5 weeks out. A contractor could pretty much add 100% to material price and still do really well. It just doesn’t add up to me.

Since this is a hunting forum, I seen on eastern Montana Craigslist a idiot was willing to pay $50,000 for a hunting lease in SE Montana for up to 3 years…. Lots of fools and their money in this world, all the while the working class is struggling.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I'd pick Rochester over Denver/Salt Lake etc any day of the week, just saying that grass is in fact a shit hole. Which is to say... dude don't go west, not worth the squeeze in my opinion.

Not just west - up on the sleepy north shore of Lake Superior we have folks paying multiples of tax valuations sight unseen over the phone by folks from Cali. Local real estate agents claim many of the remote (clueless) buyers explain their interest was based upon hearing that Lake Superior has 10% of the world's fresh water and they want to be near it for the coming "water wars". You can't make up crazy and you can't account for the spending of ridiculous gains coming out of the current Cali housing market.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

if you like mountain stuff, I'll say it New England...

You have been drinking too much Dogfish Head. Wait that reminds me the east coast has good beer now too. Ahhh you win...you always do.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You have been drinking too much Dogfish Head. Wait that reminds me the east coast has good beer now too. Ahhh you win...you always do.

I was vibing some @neffa3 with my wife a couple weekends ago. 3 days of skiing 7 different breweries. 1 which has the number 1 IPA in the country (apparently) and then 2 which specialize in German beer. All super good, lots of variety.

I love the west it will alway be home, but I feel like we’ve been bullshitting about reality for decades, and dogging on some legitimately great parts of the US.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If hunting was illegal in MA Boston would still be waaaaay better than Denver.

Now a place like Rochester... not even close.

There are a lot of factors that influence where is a good spot for every individual, me included. Lots of good reasons for me to return to CO at some point... family, job...

but if your not in OG/tech/defense and you don't really really want to be able to ski all the time. I honestly don't know why you would live in Denver. If you legitimately like city things...I mean Chicago, or Houston... I really like Dallas. On the flip side if you really like outdoors stuff (that aren't mt specific) midwest hands down or the south, if you like mountain stuff, I'll say it New England. Vermont has more options for skiing + biking, and it's like it was in CO 20 years ago. Mom and pop areas, no lift lines. Nothing like the dumpster fire of CA or WA traffic.

Now maybe 20+ years ago, I get moving to CO/Denver, and if your in your late 40s-50s and you have assets and you want to stay I understand that as well.

But if your retiring, and you don't want to ski and bike in retirement or if your in your late 20s or 30s and want to start a family... and again mountains aren't really really important to you. Denver/ Colorado is not the place to be, why spend your life paying way to much for housing, and sitting in traffic all the time.

Just saying if I was 65 and didn’t ski, and had my CO house paid off I’d be looking at property in Arkansas.

Pretty much every place in America is a decent place to live if you have enough money and like the weather. I am always amazed at how provincial folks can be - but since my folks moved around enough that I got to go to 5 different elementary schools I grew up not getting too attached to how "special" and "unique" every place was supposed to be.

 

[woods89]

If hunting was illegal in MA Boston would still be waaaaay better than Denver.

Now a place like Rochester... not even close.

There are a lot of factors that influence where is a good spot for every individual, me included. Lots of good reasons for me to return to CO at some point... family, job...

but if your not in OG/tech/defense and you don't really really want to be able to ski all the time. I honestly don't know why you would live in Denver. If you legitimately like city things...I mean Chicago, or Houston... I really like Dallas. On the flip side if you really like outdoors stuff (that aren't mt specific) midwest hands down or the south, if you like mountain stuff, I'll say it New England. Vermont has more options for skiing + biking, and it's like it was in CO 20 years ago. Mom and pop areas, no lift lines. Nothing like the dumpster fire of CA or WA traffic.

Now maybe 20+ years ago, I get moving to CO/Denver, and if your in your late 40s-50s and you have assets and you want to stay I understand that as well.

But if your retiring, and you don't want to ski and bike in retirement or if your in your late 20s or 30s and want to start a family... and again mountains aren't really really important to you. Denver/ Colorado is not the place to be, why spend your life paying way to much for housing, and sitting in traffic all the time.

Just saying if I was 65 and didn’t ski, and had my CO house paid off I’d be looking at property in Arkansas.

Let's not talk about the mid-west, it's getting plenty of attention already.......

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Pretty much every place in America is a decent place to live if you have enough money and like the weather. I am always amazed at how provincial folks can be - but since my folks moved around enough that I got to go to 5 different elementary schools I grew up not getting too attached to how "special" and "unique" every place was supposed to be.

except Utah

 

[bowhuntmontana]

It does seem crazy. I would not want to be trying to buy a house right now. Historically, there have been very few quarters where home prices have contracted. They typically go up, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. They almost never go down. We all lived through one of the dramatic cases when they did when the bubble burst in 2008, so I think we might assume that will probably happen again because we experienced it. But, I think statistically that is very unlikely, and waiting around for prices to drop might not work. I have two family members who were home shopping two years ago and were saying the same things, that prices are going through the roof and they were going to wait until they came back down. After looking at the data, they went ahead and bit the bullet and bought homes. The value of those homes are up at least 30% since they bought, so they are glad they didn't wait for a price contraction that didn't happen.

Of course, real estate is a market of markets, so there are exceptions, and I think affordability is becoming a very real problem.

 

[VikingsGuy]

except Utah

The beauty of that minimalist reply is that it is a HT forum Rorschach Test. Did you read it as Utah is an exception to the premise all places have nice parts or as an exception to the premise that no place is that special or unique?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It does seem crazy. I would not want to be trying to buy a house right now. Historically, there have been very few quarters where home prices have contracted. They typically go up, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. They almost never go down. We all lived through one of the dramatic cases when they did when the bubble burst in 2008, so I think we might assume that will probably happen again because we experienced it. But, I think statistically that is very unlikely, and waiting around for prices to drop might not work. I have two family members who were home shopping two years ago and were saying the same things, that prices are going through the roof and they were going to wait until they came back down. After looking at the data, they went ahead and bit the bullet and bought homes. The value of those homes are up at least 30% since they bought, so they are glad they didn't wait for a price contraction that didn't happen.

Of course, real estate is a market of markets, so there are exceptions, and I think affordability is becoming a very real problem.

Agreed, though I refuse to believe the market is asymptotic.

There are properties like this all over the place, with no work being done to them...
2015 - 50K
2018 - 120k
2020 - 180k
2021 - 210k

Sure some inflation, but 6 years and 4x you are going to hit a ceiling and then plateau.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The beauty of that minimalist reply is that it is a HT forum Rorschach Test. Did you read it as Utah is an exception to the premise all places have nice parts or as an exception to the premise that no place is that special or unique?

I provided a .gif for clarification.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I provided a .gif for clarification.

I understood your intention, was just thinking about all the other HT readers initial impression

 

[Dougfirtree]

I was vibing some @neffa3 with my wife a couple weekends ago. 3 days of skiing 7 different breweries. 1 which has the number 1 IPA in the country (apparently) and then 2 which specialize in German beer. All super good, lots of variety.

I love the west it will alway be home, but I feel like we’ve been bullshitting about reality for decades, and dogging on some legitimately great parts of the US.

My beautiful house on 7 acres is still assessed at a bit over $200,000. Skiing, hiking, paddling, biking, fishing, hunting, fancy beer, etc: all right out the door. Water everywhere...

 

[Dougfirtree]

Not just west - up on the sleepy north shore of Lake Superior we have folks paying multiples of tax valuations sight unseen over the phone by folks from Cali. Local real estate agents claim many of the remote (clueless) buyers explain their interest was based upon hearing that Lake Superior has 10% of the world's fresh water and they want to be near it for the coming "water wars". You can't make up crazy and you can't account for the spending of ridiculous gains coming out of the current Cali housing market.

Might not be that crazy...

 

[BigHornRam]

Me too. I’m at a point right now in my life/career where I either have to go all-in or get out. I don’t need this risk and stress in my life. I’m out.

It's been a good career for me and I've enjoyed it. At almost 60 I'm lucky that I don't need to do it anymore. Hope it all works out for you and find something that is a better fit.

 

[BigHornRam]

If hunting was illegal in MA Boston would still be waaaaay better than Denver.

Now a place like Rochester... not even close.

There are a lot of factors that influence where is a good spot for every individual, me included. Lots of good reasons for me to return to CO at some point... family, job...

but if your not in OG/tech/defense and you don't really really want to be able to ski all the time. I honestly don't know why you would live in Denver. If you legitimately like city things...I mean Chicago, or Houston... I really like Dallas. On the flip side if you really like outdoors stuff (that aren't mt specific) midwest hands down or the south, if you like mountain stuff, I'll say it New England. Vermont has more options for skiing + biking, and it's like it was in CO 20 years ago. Mom and pop areas, no lift lines. Nothing like the dumpster fire of CA or WA traffic.

Now maybe 20+ years ago, I get moving to CO/Denver, and if your in your late 40s-50s and you have assets and you want to stay I understand that as well.

But if your retiring, and you don't want to ski and bike in retirement or if your in your late 20s or 30s and want to start a family... and again mountains aren't really really important to you. Denver/ Colorado is not the place to be, why spend your life paying way to much for housing, and sitting in traffic all the time.

Just saying if I was 65 and didn’t ski, and had my CO house paid off I’d be looking at property in Arkansas.

Slow down with all the analysis wllm and breathe a little. Sparks are starting to fly out of your head.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Did you just compare Montana's economy to Colorado's?

No, I said both states have economies that can drive sustainable growth. Read it again. lol.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Slow down with all the analysis wllm and breathe a little. Sparks are starting to fly out of your head.

Comcast broke my internet and so instead of 5% of my focus you poor SOBs are getting 30%