HB149, WY NR's get your wallets out
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BuzzH
Well-known member
jims,
Whats really standing out to me is how little you understand the process and politics behind these types of bills.
I cant help but be alarmed that you make comments like, I'm pretty sure when the WG&F first started the regular vs special price license deal there thinking wasn't that regular tags were for just ave joe hunters and special tags are only for the "better off" hunters. They didn't design this to exclude anyone! Their thoughts were that those that are willing to pay a little more for tags are possibly rewarded with a little better odds for drawing tags. That is exactly how I look at the system. I would venture a guess that a large chunk of hunters take a look at draw stats and apply for the type of tag that offers the best opportunity to draw tags? My thought is that if applying for special tags increases my chance for drawing...if I do happen to draw a special tag I will be contributing more to the WG&F.
Really obvious that you honestly have no idea why the tiered license fee structure was put in place, who put it there, and what state governing body put into statute.
The GF did not just "start" the 40/60 tiered license fee structure, they have NO authority to take that kind of action.
The law was passed by the Legislature, and the GF can not, and does not, lobby either way for bills that pertain to license fee structures, fee increases, etc. They cant.
The law was not put into place for a revenue stream.
The law was not put into place to give DIY guys that wanted to pay more money, better odds for a tag.
The law was brought to the legislature by WYOGA, it was passed to garner more clients for the outfitters, plain and simple. The thought behind the law was that the special pool of tags would likely go to the more well-heeled hunters who could afford a guide. It was also a "compromise" to what the outfitters really wanted, and that is a set-aside of outfitter only permits.
Now, with blood in the water over the budget "woes" of the GF department, WYOGA is trying to reduce the quotas for the average guy, and increase the tags available to their clients with this 60/40 bill.
Its no different than the bill they passed to keep you out of the wilderness in Wyoming, its all about whats best for THEM. They don't care about DIY NR's and frankly, wish you didn't even hunt Wyoming without using their services. If they could pass a law tomorrow to only allow guided hunts in Wyoming for all hunters, they'd do it in a heart-beat and never give you a second thought.
Even more amazing is that you're having trouble recognizing how you are falling for their political gerry-mandering of NR hunting opportunities in Wyoming.
Its not very hard to connect dots that are that obvious...all you have to do is look who brought both of these bills to the Legislature.
I'm in total disbelief of your lack of understanding on how these things happen...
Whats really standing out to me is how little you understand the process and politics behind these types of bills.
I cant help but be alarmed that you make comments like, I'm pretty sure when the WG&F first started the regular vs special price license deal there thinking wasn't that regular tags were for just ave joe hunters and special tags are only for the "better off" hunters. They didn't design this to exclude anyone! Their thoughts were that those that are willing to pay a little more for tags are possibly rewarded with a little better odds for drawing tags. That is exactly how I look at the system. I would venture a guess that a large chunk of hunters take a look at draw stats and apply for the type of tag that offers the best opportunity to draw tags? My thought is that if applying for special tags increases my chance for drawing...if I do happen to draw a special tag I will be contributing more to the WG&F.
Really obvious that you honestly have no idea why the tiered license fee structure was put in place, who put it there, and what state governing body put into statute.
The GF did not just "start" the 40/60 tiered license fee structure, they have NO authority to take that kind of action.
The law was passed by the Legislature, and the GF can not, and does not, lobby either way for bills that pertain to license fee structures, fee increases, etc. They cant.
The law was not put into place for a revenue stream.
The law was not put into place to give DIY guys that wanted to pay more money, better odds for a tag.
The law was brought to the legislature by WYOGA, it was passed to garner more clients for the outfitters, plain and simple. The thought behind the law was that the special pool of tags would likely go to the more well-heeled hunters who could afford a guide. It was also a "compromise" to what the outfitters really wanted, and that is a set-aside of outfitter only permits.
Now, with blood in the water over the budget "woes" of the GF department, WYOGA is trying to reduce the quotas for the average guy, and increase the tags available to their clients with this 60/40 bill.
Its no different than the bill they passed to keep you out of the wilderness in Wyoming, its all about whats best for THEM. They don't care about DIY NR's and frankly, wish you didn't even hunt Wyoming without using their services. If they could pass a law tomorrow to only allow guided hunts in Wyoming for all hunters, they'd do it in a heart-beat and never give you a second thought.
Even more amazing is that you're having trouble recognizing how you are falling for their political gerry-mandering of NR hunting opportunities in Wyoming.
Its not very hard to connect dots that are that obvious...all you have to do is look who brought both of these bills to the Legislature.
I'm in total disbelief of your lack of understanding on how these things happen...
Plain and simple the regular/special draw has enabled me and many other DIY/OYO hunters to draw many tags over the years. I may not understand the legislature and legislature process but I definitely know how to draw fantastic tags in Wyoming. Just like many of my DIY/OYO friends we apply for both regular or special draw tags depending on which offer the best option for drawing tags. I am willing to skimp, save, and budget so I can afford these tags on a wimpy salary!
For those that have young kids that are close to legal hunting age I would suggest encouraging your kids to get paper routes or work other jobs to earn extra money to put towards great hunting trips in Wyo! I have a feeling that quite a few people that are complaining about license fees have kids that sit in front of the boob tube after school playing video games! I think your kids would appreciate the hunt and experience even more if they knew they had to work for it!
Buzz, thanks for the kind words! I'm sure you have never supported a bill that also happens to be supported by the WYOGA? I actually believe there are a lot of positives for this bill whether the WYOGA supports the bill or not. I've pretty much explained some of the negatives.
For those that have young kids that are close to legal hunting age I would suggest encouraging your kids to get paper routes or work other jobs to earn extra money to put towards great hunting trips in Wyo! I have a feeling that quite a few people that are complaining about license fees have kids that sit in front of the boob tube after school playing video games! I think your kids would appreciate the hunt and experience even more if they knew they had to work for it!
Buzz, thanks for the kind words! I'm sure you have never supported a bill that also happens to be supported by the WYOGA? I actually believe there are a lot of positives for this bill whether the WYOGA supports the bill or not. I've pretty much explained some of the negatives.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Like I've said from the start with hunters like you jims, its all about you and your ability to draw tags...never a thought given to the ramifications of how this type of legislation may impact hunting as a whole.
That is unbelievably selfish thinking, and very sad.
I wish I had your same callous attitude toward my fellow hunters...trouble is I have to sleep at night.
You are right about one thing, and that is I have never supported a piece of legislation in MT or WY that was brought to the legislature by the outfitter lobby.
I'm not much into transferable landowner tags, outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness guide laws, things of that nature.
When the outfitter lobby brings a bill to the legislature in support of average DIY hunters, it will be their first...and about as likely to happen as catching a leprechaun.
That is unbelievably selfish thinking, and very sad.
I wish I had your same callous attitude toward my fellow hunters...trouble is I have to sleep at night.
You are right about one thing, and that is I have never supported a piece of legislation in MT or WY that was brought to the legislature by the outfitter lobby.
I'm not much into transferable landowner tags, outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness guide laws, things of that nature.
When the outfitter lobby brings a bill to the legislature in support of average DIY hunters, it will be their first...and about as likely to happen as catching a leprechaun.
JohnCushman
Well-known member
One thing I can see happening if this get passed is that units with leftover or 0 point draws will become more popular since they can be gotten in the regular draw and those of us who hunt those units every year will be pushed out in the long run. I can't really see any positives to this passing. It seems that a $50 increase across the board on NR tags would generate a lot of revenue and keep more hunters in the pool, thus creating long term revenue instead of an instant fix that could be detrimental in the long run.
BuzzH
Well-known member
John, you are 100% correct. There have been replies to this thread stating that...rather hunt a cow than a bull, shift to higher odds areas in the regular fee draw, etc.
I will say that a RESIDENT fee increase across the board is what's really needed. IMO, I think NR regular fees are pretty close to the price point that NR's of average income are willing to pay.
Wyoming needs to be careful in how much more water they try to dip from the NR well...
I will say that a RESIDENT fee increase across the board is what's really needed. IMO, I think NR regular fees are pretty close to the price point that NR's of average income are willing to pay.
Wyoming needs to be careful in how much more water they try to dip from the NR well...
Buzz, I agree with you in regard to an across the board fee increase for Wyo res is really is needed and likely would have prevented some of the current issues. I'm curious what you think will happen if the 60/40 passes...do you think the legislature will aggressively still try to pass bills to increase license fees in the near future? I agree that regular priced tags will likely be tougher to draw in some units if 60/40 passes. You are overlooking the fact that the opposite is true if you save your cash and apply for a special tag. Hopefully antelope and deer number improve in the near future so tag allotments increase. Everyone seems pretty happy when herd numbers are doing well and more tags are issued!
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Buzz, looks like you were just supporting HB 149 a few weeks ago on MonsterMuleys.com. Post 187 you stated the following:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID35/3402.html#.VNY3m2d0zIU
"Since my NR buddies all have plenty of money, I think its only fair to look out for them, as well as the Department funding. I will be testifying in favor of the 60/40 split for SP vs. Reg priced fees that the outfitters have introduced. Its solid legislation that increases funding, and will give my family and friends higher draw odds in the Antelope, Deer, and Elk. They will draw more tags, more often, and I will be able to spend more time hunting with them.
The funding issue and everything having to do with money is a double-edged sword. That blade is about to apply a cut both ways."
Then a few posts later you advised yer buddy Topgun of the following:
"You're 100% wrong, a majority of sportsmens groups here in Wyoming are only worried about funding the GF. Its just a fact.
I cant be the 1 guy that is looking out for equity and the average hunter, until the GF is fully funded. I just cant do it, and no other group is willing to do it either.
So, no matter what legislation is introduced, as long as it doesn't TAKE resident opportunity, my hands are tied to support it.
Exactly why I will support the 60/40 flop on special VS regular tag fee structure. It will raise more revenue and that's the focus.
Welcome to the new world of $1k elk tags, $600 deer tags, and $500 antelope tags.
If any of you NR's want to show up to fight WYOGA on this, theres an interstate that runs East/West called I-80. It will take you to Cheyenne, where you can fight your own battle.
I'll be the guy on the other side of the aisle supporting getting the GF fully funded.
See you there!"
Good job! I'm gonna support it with you and Jims...
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID35/3402.html#.VNY3m2d0zIU
"Since my NR buddies all have plenty of money, I think its only fair to look out for them, as well as the Department funding. I will be testifying in favor of the 60/40 split for SP vs. Reg priced fees that the outfitters have introduced. Its solid legislation that increases funding, and will give my family and friends higher draw odds in the Antelope, Deer, and Elk. They will draw more tags, more often, and I will be able to spend more time hunting with them.
The funding issue and everything having to do with money is a double-edged sword. That blade is about to apply a cut both ways."
Then a few posts later you advised yer buddy Topgun of the following:
"You're 100% wrong, a majority of sportsmens groups here in Wyoming are only worried about funding the GF. Its just a fact.
I cant be the 1 guy that is looking out for equity and the average hunter, until the GF is fully funded. I just cant do it, and no other group is willing to do it either.
So, no matter what legislation is introduced, as long as it doesn't TAKE resident opportunity, my hands are tied to support it.
Exactly why I will support the 60/40 flop on special VS regular tag fee structure. It will raise more revenue and that's the focus.
Welcome to the new world of $1k elk tags, $600 deer tags, and $500 antelope tags.
If any of you NR's want to show up to fight WYOGA on this, theres an interstate that runs East/West called I-80. It will take you to Cheyenne, where you can fight your own battle.
I'll be the guy on the other side of the aisle supporting getting the GF fully funded.
See you there!"
Good job! I'm gonna support it with you and Jims...
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Ernie Trujillo,
To fire up the base, different approaches sometimes work...sorry you missed the irony in that post.
Carry on...
To fire up the base, different approaches sometimes work...sorry you missed the irony in that post.
Carry on...
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ernie,
That post is 100% ironical, if you pay attention at all. Sometimes people need a wake-up call on the reality of who and what they're supporting, and what its going to lead to.
Most times the subtle approach just doesn't get the point across...get it?
Probably not, but carry on.
That post is 100% ironical, if you pay attention at all. Sometimes people need a wake-up call on the reality of who and what they're supporting, and what its going to lead to.
Most times the subtle approach just doesn't get the point across...get it?
Probably not, but carry on.
elkantlers
Well-known member
Triple BB, You beat me too it. I thought the same thing when I read Buzz's previous post.
Irony? Hardly! You were being a total DB and were in full Buzz mode. You pretty much said you were going to single handedly get the 90/10 passed. But now that you had your teeth handed to you, you are saying you used reverse psychology to get NR's fired up? Unbelievable :W:
X2
I didn't support the 90/10 split and I certainly don't support the 60/40 Special/Reg change.
BuzzH
Well-known member
elkantlers,
As per always you (and Ernie) miss the real issue...it has nothing to do with 90/10 or 60/40...and that's a fact.
Try, if you can and dare, to broaden your view of what's really happening with these types of bills.
One would think that a person living in Utah could see where all this leads...but apparently not.
As per always you (and Ernie) miss the real issue...it has nothing to do with 90/10 or 60/40...and that's a fact.
Try, if you can and dare, to broaden your view of what's really happening with these types of bills.
One would think that a person living in Utah could see where all this leads...but apparently not.
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There are a lot of naive (IMO) folks telling me that this will never happen. I'm no prophet, but I think the writing is on the wall where this is heading.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Steve O, you are correct, but maybe "devils" is the more correct word.
Buzz, looks like you got caught with your pants down! From what I remember you were fighting tooth and nail to get the 90:10 bill passed...you pretty much assured everyone that it would pass! It's obvious that you are sluffing it off on this website like nothing happened. I'm curious why the change in character and point of view on this website?
So tell us Buzz...were you for or against the 90:10 bill in all your posts on the MM website? It's obvious in your statement above that you were against it....oops I believe I noticed you edited the comment that you weren't for the 90:10 out of your post above!!!!
I think a lot of guys are seeing your true colors...it aint fun getting caught with your pants down is it?
I welcome everyone to take a look at Buzz's comments on the MM website! Here's one of many of his infamous obnoxious posts:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b...z=show_thread&om=3402&forum=DCForumID35&omm=0
So tell us Buzz...were you for or against the 90:10 bill in all your posts on the MM website? It's obvious in your statement above that you were against it....oops I believe I noticed you edited the comment that you weren't for the 90:10 out of your post above!!!!
I think a lot of guys are seeing your true colors...it aint fun getting caught with your pants down is it?
I welcome everyone to take a look at Buzz's comments on the MM website! Here's one of many of his infamous obnoxious posts:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b...z=show_thread&om=3402&forum=DCForumID35&omm=0
jryoung
Well-known member
If you guys want to make this about Buzz, there's a PM function. otherwise this was a 4 page thread of decent discussion.
BuzzH
Well-known member
jryoung don't sweat it my man...broad shoulder here, and live by the words of people who get things done.
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
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