roadhunter
Banned
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- Jul 28, 2013
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- 719
Would that make you and Buzz act like adults?
HB149, WY NR's get your wallets out
- Thread starter BuzzH
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Roadhunter,
If this bill impacts you and you have an opinion and/or a dog in the fight, send some emails that reflect your concerns.
If it doesn't, move along...
If this bill impacts you and you have an opinion and/or a dog in the fight, send some emails that reflect your concerns.
If it doesn't, move along...
roadhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 719
Actually you did. You called on NR hunters which I am. But if it makes you feel better to tell me you dont want my support that is fine. All it does if reflect poorly on you and continue to confirm what everyone already knows about you and how you treat people while hiding behind your computer..
BuzzH
Well-known member
Roadhunter,
No, actually I didn't.
I called on NR's to make them aware of a change in legislation that will impact their hunting in Wyoming.
I'm not forcing anyone to send an email of support or opposition, rather providing the facts of what this bill will do, link to the bill, and link to the committees to make it easier for those that care to comment to do so.
I'm sure there have been letters sent from this thread both in favor of, and in opposition of this bill.
Again, if this bill impacts you, one way or the other, and you have an opinion, I've made it pretty easy for you to get your voice heard.
If you don't care either way...then move along.
BTW, I'm pretty easy to find in Laramie and I'll give you directions to the double wide if you're going to be in town.
No, actually I didn't.
I called on NR's to make them aware of a change in legislation that will impact their hunting in Wyoming.
I'm not forcing anyone to send an email of support or opposition, rather providing the facts of what this bill will do, link to the bill, and link to the committees to make it easier for those that care to comment to do so.
I'm sure there have been letters sent from this thread both in favor of, and in opposition of this bill.
Again, if this bill impacts you, one way or the other, and you have an opinion, I've made it pretty easy for you to get your voice heard.
If you don't care either way...then move along.
BTW, I'm pretty easy to find in Laramie and I'll give you directions to the double wide if you're going to be in town.
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JohnCushman
Well-known member
You're the only one being a douchebag in this thread. Buzz brought forward something that has an effect on all of us NR hunters. I, for one, have the utmost respect for Buzz and value his opinion. To me, if he says this is important, then it is important. He's not asking you for your help or support, he simply put the information out there for us to do with what we feel is right.
Steelhead
Active member
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- Dec 28, 2009
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- 701
And that makes the post I was drafting obsolete...
huntin24/7
Well-known member
It's a difficult scenario in regards to boycotting. They kind of have us between a rock and a hard place. For the record, I'm very much opposed to how many states are outpricing the average hunter and turning the sport into a rich mans game. At the same time, they know how passionate we are about hunting and realize how valuable these tags are to us and what we'll sacrifice to be able to afford them. Aside from taking care of my family, I could sacrifice a lot of things I personally enjoy in order to pay extra for a tag and afford gas to get to my unit. Maybe that's wrong, but it is a reality.
In regards to hunters uniting and putting aside their disagreements, we could definitely do a better job of banding together and supporting each other. However, there has to be a line drawn at times for our own good. For example, chastising someone for "flock" shooting into a herd of elk doesn't make one an elitist because that behavior makes us look terrible in the eyes of the public. I'm also not going to tell someone who hiked 5 miles into the backcountry and shot an elk at 500-600 yards (inside their comfort zone) that the shot is unethical. I'm tired of typing. That's all for now.
In regards to hunters uniting and putting aside their disagreements, we could definitely do a better job of banding together and supporting each other. However, there has to be a line drawn at times for our own good. For example, chastising someone for "flock" shooting into a herd of elk doesn't make one an elitist because that behavior makes us look terrible in the eyes of the public. I'm also not going to tell someone who hiked 5 miles into the backcountry and shot an elk at 500-600 yards (inside their comfort zone) that the shot is unethical. I'm tired of typing. That's all for now.
idahofishnhunt
Well-known member
Emails sent...
I realize this is a forum and open discussion, but why do these little piss fights always end up happening. Take them to private message or maybe Randy can start a UFC (Ultimate Forum Championship) category to go post in.
I realize this is a forum and open discussion, but why do these little piss fights always end up happening. Take them to private message or maybe Randy can start a UFC (Ultimate Forum Championship) category to go post in.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
They happen because there's just a couple of pot stirrers out that that have nothing better to add. Just ignore those few.
I've thought long and hard about this bill and have a few things to add in favor of the 60/40 bill. I'm trying to look at this from the WG&F's prospective. Offering a 60/40 split would dramatically increase the WG&F's revenue. Wyo res aren't willing to back an increase in revenue so nonres would be picking up a larger piece of the pie...so to speak. If the sky falls down and Wyo res all of a sudden are willing to pay more for tags...guess what might happen to nonres quotas? My guess is Wyo res will likely get a larger chunk of tags!. I would doubt that the WG&F would likely slash nonres tags in future years with a 60/40 split since the nonres are supporting and contributing to an even higher extent compared to Wyo res. Although many nonres would have to dig deeper in their pockets to apply for special tags with a 40/60 split there would be the same number of tags available to nonres. It's not exactly like wealthy outfitted hunters are drawing tags everyone still has the option of paying a little more for tags that could potentially be a little easier to draw.
If the 60/40 bill doesn't pass the WG&F will be faced with other proposals that may end up as an eve worse scenerio for the majority of ave Joe hunters. Take a look at NM where nonres OYO/DIY hunters got slapped in the face. NM res and outfitters now get a larger chunk of tags. UT is a great example of where big $ groups came in and passed laws for high dollar conservation, landowner, governor's, auction, and other tags that took tags directly away from the majority of hunters that apply for tags. These have raised big $ in UT and the same thing could potenetially happen if the WG&F gets desperate in Wyo.
The one thing I'm spooked about if this does pass is what happens once the WG&F get their financial feet back on the ground....which this would do! Would they introduce legislation to slash nonres tags or introduce other bills that may affect the average Joe hunter?
I guess what I'm trying to say is the 60/40 split may not be that bad of a thing. It may just make it so the average Joe has to save up a little more cash to hunt. This may actually be better than some of the other alternatives that may pass! It would also solidify tags for nonres in future years.
If the 60/40 bill doesn't pass the WG&F will be faced with other proposals that may end up as an eve worse scenerio for the majority of ave Joe hunters. Take a look at NM where nonres OYO/DIY hunters got slapped in the face. NM res and outfitters now get a larger chunk of tags. UT is a great example of where big $ groups came in and passed laws for high dollar conservation, landowner, governor's, auction, and other tags that took tags directly away from the majority of hunters that apply for tags. These have raised big $ in UT and the same thing could potenetially happen if the WG&F gets desperate in Wyo.
The one thing I'm spooked about if this does pass is what happens once the WG&F get their financial feet back on the ground....which this would do! Would they introduce legislation to slash nonres tags or introduce other bills that may affect the average Joe hunter?
I guess what I'm trying to say is the 60/40 split may not be that bad of a thing. It may just make it so the average Joe has to save up a little more cash to hunt. This may actually be better than some of the other alternatives that may pass! It would also solidify tags for nonres in future years.
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jims,
I understand where you are coming from, but you need to look even farther down the road. This is just one more shaky step down the slippery slope where, at the bottom, lies a future where only the very rich can afford to hunt.
Sure, in the short run, coming up with an extra $600 over the course of 12 months to go elk hunting may just mean making some small sacrifices elsewhere. But, when the average person is looking at $2,200+ for a chance to take your two kids elk hunting in Wyoming there is a good chance they'll be sitting at home playing their Xbox instead. That is not good for the future of hunting. When the next generation has even fewer hunters, they'll have to raise the price even more to keep Fish and Game running.
The long term solution is to make hunting accessible to as many people as possible and to keep the Fish and Game department as efficient as possible. I understand that license costs need to continually rise a bit with inflation, but what has been going on is ridiculous. The residents of Wyoming need to step up this time and help out.
I understand where you are coming from, but you need to look even farther down the road. This is just one more shaky step down the slippery slope where, at the bottom, lies a future where only the very rich can afford to hunt.
Sure, in the short run, coming up with an extra $600 over the course of 12 months to go elk hunting may just mean making some small sacrifices elsewhere. But, when the average person is looking at $2,200+ for a chance to take your two kids elk hunting in Wyoming there is a good chance they'll be sitting at home playing their Xbox instead. That is not good for the future of hunting. When the next generation has even fewer hunters, they'll have to raise the price even more to keep Fish and Game running.
The long term solution is to make hunting accessible to as many people as possible and to keep the Fish and Game department as efficient as possible. I understand that license costs need to continually rise a bit with inflation, but what has been going on is ridiculous. The residents of Wyoming need to step up this time and help out.
BuzzH
Well-known member
jims,
Just curious if you've bothered to look at the fiscal note...which is a complete guess. We aren't talking life-changing money...just a pinch over $400,000, which IMO, is very optimistic. $400K is not going to save the department budget, and when considered in an over-all annual working budget of 70-72 million, not a significant source of income. For reference the super tag raffle last year raised just shy of $700,000...almost double what this bill would raise.
Also, tag quotas fluctuate for both R and NR's and it has nothing to do with budget constraints or who pays more for tags. Wyoming manages their game with science, and why this last year there was a decrease in 12,000 pronghorn tags.
Also, its getting a bit old listening to you whine that Residents are not willing to pay more, we are, and polling has proven that. The fact is, that Wyoming Resident hunters and every Wyoming hunting organization in the State has tried to pass multiple bills in the last 2 sessions to increase Resident Fees. The legislature has killed every one of those bills despite the wishes of Resident Hunters and hunting groups...for purely political reasoning and against the wishes of a majority of Resident hunters.
Your blame is misguided.
Just curious if you've bothered to look at the fiscal note...which is a complete guess. We aren't talking life-changing money...just a pinch over $400,000, which IMO, is very optimistic. $400K is not going to save the department budget, and when considered in an over-all annual working budget of 70-72 million, not a significant source of income. For reference the super tag raffle last year raised just shy of $700,000...almost double what this bill would raise.
Also, tag quotas fluctuate for both R and NR's and it has nothing to do with budget constraints or who pays more for tags. Wyoming manages their game with science, and why this last year there was a decrease in 12,000 pronghorn tags.
Also, its getting a bit old listening to you whine that Residents are not willing to pay more, we are, and polling has proven that. The fact is, that Wyoming Resident hunters and every Wyoming hunting organization in the State has tried to pass multiple bills in the last 2 sessions to increase Resident Fees. The legislature has killed every one of those bills despite the wishes of Resident Hunters and hunting groups...for purely political reasoning and against the wishes of a majority of Resident hunters.
Your blame is misguided.
BuzzH,
I understand that. I wasn't directing my comment at the residents themselves (though in rereading it, it sounds like it), but the legislature who seems to view NRs as an unlimited source of money.
I'd like to see a rule that says that a nonresident tag can't be more than xxx% of a resident tag. It may force the lawmakers to think a little more before just raising nonresident tags, by default, when they run short of money. But, I live in MN so my opinion really doesn't matter.
BuzzH
Well-known member
NoWiser,
The world of Wyoming politics is much more sinister than the Legislature just wanting to view NR's as an unlimited funding source.
The reason the fee increase bills didn't pass last session had nothing to do with who was going to pay more and who wasn't. There were separate bills introduced that would have raised fees for both, for just NR, and just R.
They all failed, so if what you think is true, that the Legislature views NR's as a funding source was actually true, then there would have been no reason to kill a bill that only impacted NR's. Yet, that is exactly what happened.
There are many within the Legislature that have personal vendetta's with the WYGF, for a multitude of reasons. One way, perhaps the only way, that the Legislature feels they can keep their thumbs on the WYGF is to control the funding. Which, IMO, is irresponsible as a best case. If Wyoming Resident Hunters choose to impose higher fees on themselves, the Legislature should be obliged to honor that request, and leave their baggage at the door.
Make no mistakes, this 60/40 bill has very little to do with funding, and everything to do with politically catering to special interest.
The world of Wyoming politics is much more sinister than the Legislature just wanting to view NR's as an unlimited funding source.
The reason the fee increase bills didn't pass last session had nothing to do with who was going to pay more and who wasn't. There were separate bills introduced that would have raised fees for both, for just NR, and just R.
They all failed, so if what you think is true, that the Legislature views NR's as a funding source was actually true, then there would have been no reason to kill a bill that only impacted NR's. Yet, that is exactly what happened.
There are many within the Legislature that have personal vendetta's with the WYGF, for a multitude of reasons. One way, perhaps the only way, that the Legislature feels they can keep their thumbs on the WYGF is to control the funding. Which, IMO, is irresponsible as a best case. If Wyoming Resident Hunters choose to impose higher fees on themselves, the Legislature should be obliged to honor that request, and leave their baggage at the door.
Make no mistakes, this 60/40 bill has very little to do with funding, and everything to do with politically catering to special interest.
In reality nonres plus Wyo residents will likely need to dig deeper into your wallets if the 60S/40R doesn’t pass! I would guess that both regular plus special nonres license fees are bound to increase if the proposed 60/40 doesn’t pass. If 60/40 passes nonres prices will likely remain the same and the WG&F will have an increase of at least $400k/year in revenue. This is actually backwards of what a lot of guys that are opposed to this bill are thinking! With the proposed 60/40 change tag prices will likely remain as they are, the WG&F will increase revenue, and draw odds for special tags will likely increase.
Another twist to consider if 60/40 doesn’t pass is how many DIY/OYO hunters are going to get priced out of regular and special tag prices when prices are likely increased? I would also imagine Wyo res my be tickled pink if the 60/40 deal passes because this will likely take the pressure off increasing Wyo resident tag fees!
Obviously fewer deer and antelope tags issued in 2014 has something to do with only $400k estimated in the fiscal report. I come up with about twice the $800k budget increase using 2013 special and regular priced tag issued numbers taken directly from the WG&F budget pages (page C-11 if anyone is interested). One thing for sure when the game numbers are prosperous….so is revenue!
Another twist to consider if 60/40 doesn’t pass is how many DIY/OYO hunters are going to get priced out of regular and special tag prices when prices are likely increased? I would also imagine Wyo res my be tickled pink if the 60/40 deal passes because this will likely take the pressure off increasing Wyo resident tag fees!
Obviously fewer deer and antelope tags issued in 2014 has something to do with only $400k estimated in the fiscal report. I come up with about twice the $800k budget increase using 2013 special and regular priced tag issued numbers taken directly from the WG&F budget pages (page C-11 if anyone is interested). One thing for sure when the game numbers are prosperous….so is revenue!
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jims,
So how is it a good deal for DIY guys when the supply of regular priced licenses is decreased by 30%, point creep worsens, and they are paying 50-100 bucks more for each tag they are able to draw?
This is a class allocation of tags for the better-to-do, and I don't believe for a second that it's a good thing.
So how is it a good deal for DIY guys when the supply of regular priced licenses is decreased by 30%, point creep worsens, and they are paying 50-100 bucks more for each tag they are able to draw?
This is a class allocation of tags for the better-to-do, and I don't believe for a second that it's a good thing.
JLS, You are right that regular price tags will decrease in number but you aren't mentioning that special tag numbers will increase by the same amount, You are right that depending upon the unit and species pt creep may increase in some regular priced units....but will likely improve in just as many special tag units,
As mentioned in my post above the price of tags will likely stay the same if the proposed 60/40 deal goes through but if it fails I can almost guarantee the price of regular plus special tags will increase. I have no idea how much more regular and special tags will increase but it may be a chunk!
I don't claim to be a better-to-do guy and in fact, make a pretty pathetic salary. I've never gone on a guided hunt in my life and am a DIY/OYO type hunter. I have 2 kids in college and try to pinch and save all year round so I can afford DIY/OYO hunts each fall. As all of us know it's tough to draw nonres deer, elk, and antelope tags every year so in lean years I save my pennies for the years I am lucky enough to draw.
As mentioned in my post above the price of tags will likely stay the same if the proposed 60/40 deal goes through but if it fails I can almost guarantee the price of regular plus special tags will increase. I have no idea how much more regular and special tags will increase but it may be a chunk!
I don't claim to be a better-to-do guy and in fact, make a pretty pathetic salary. I've never gone on a guided hunt in my life and am a DIY/OYO type hunter. I have 2 kids in college and try to pinch and save all year round so I can afford DIY/OYO hunts each fall. As all of us know it's tough to draw nonres deer, elk, and antelope tags every year so in lean years I save my pennies for the years I am lucky enough to draw.
hunt1up
Active member
I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to resort to hunting 100% draw and leftover hunts. Cow instead of bull...fine. Dink antelope vs. stud...fine. More pressure...bring it on.
Wyoming has become my go-to western state but that might change. Hell, I've been researching DIY blacktails in California for Christ's sake.
Wyoming has become my go-to western state but that might change. Hell, I've been researching DIY blacktails in California for Christ's sake.
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