HB149, WY NR's get your wallets out

[Topgun 30-06]

Just a quick thought here on this Bill that I don't believe has been brought up. If it goes through and the vast majority of Average Joe NRs stuck together and only applied for the Regular price Draws, those higher priced tags that would be applied for and drawn would roll into those cheaper draws. If enough NRs did that, it could actually have a negative effect on the amount of money the G&F would take in to the point that they might actually take in less than they do now! That's just a thought knowing how the draws work and maybe the only way the NRs actually have a say and that would be in the pocket book. I hate to even bring up because it would negatively effect the G&F that is right in the middle of all this political BS the last few years, but it could be a way for the NRs to actually have a voice in our own destiny as far as tag prices. Maybe this could/should be something else we should mention in our correspondence with the Legislators.

 

[BuzzH]

Nice thought, but its a fantasyland proposal. Too many sportsmen only care about their next tag and better draw odds. Combine that with an out-of-control legislature and special interests...your idea isn't going to happen.

I'll continue to work on getting this thing stopped, but it has legs.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

In an ideal scenario this might work, but I think the reality would be a bunch of NR's who can afford the special price will get a bunch of really good tags for less PPs. Many of these same folks will then go seek out an outfitter to ensure they take advantage of their awesome tag; which is the exact reason WYOGA sponsored this bill. I am not saying that everyone who applies in the special draw uses an outfitter, but I bet money the percentage is higher than those in the regular draw.

If people get wind that there is going to be some kind of special tag boycott, there are going to be more than enough oportunists who will swoop in and undermine the effort.

 

[npaden]

I think that there will indeed be some leftover tags in some of the less desirable areas that will fall to the regular draw.

Not because of any boycott or altruistic idealists, but simply because Idaho and Montana have both shown that you can indeed price nonresidents out of licenses.

It might take a couple years to cycle through, but there are only so many folks out there willing to pay $1,100 for an elk tag and I think that after a couple years of some points clearing out there will be some of the less desirable areas that don't sell out in the Special draw.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Interesting discussion minus the brief detour.

Wouldn't it be interesting if every time the fees were hiked, it was required that both residents and non-residents participate in the increases?

 

[BuzzH]

It was tried, as were separate bills to increase Resident only as well as NR only...all failed.

Pretty sad when Wyoming Resident Hunters are denied by the Legislature when we beg them to increase the Resident fees only.

Politics are a wonderful thing.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

When I made my post I was well aware that it was sort of a Fantasyland idea like BuzzH mentioned and that there may be enough people that don't give a rip about the rest of the folks if the flip/flop gives them a better shot at a tag. I guess a lot of the Legislators don't see this as a fee increase for NRs and are just looking at the added revenue they think it will bring. It will also add another year or two on if it passes without them having to even think of passing a resident license increase. Maybe at least the thought of what I mentioned put into their brain along with the other negative ramifications might help on their final decision though, as I don't think it would hurt mentioning that possibility even if the reality is slim.

 

[BuzzH]

This bill has absolutely nothing to do with revenue, the GF budget, or putting off a resident fee increase. The Legislature doesn't care about any of that...

Connect the dots...

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I percieve this as the doing of some special interests (SFW & Outfitters) to make more tags available to those with more money, who will then turn around and line their pocketbooks.

 

[BuzzH]

Winner winner...chicken dinner. I don't believe even SFW is in support of this bill...correction, I know they're not in support.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Outfitters obviously have alot of sway in WY if they were able to get the Wilderness restrictions through.

Does WYOGA get support from ranchers? I ask because I have seen several instances of rancher policing their property lines in order to protect the leases they have with some outfitter, and I would presume that if business is good for the outfitters, the ranchers can get piece of that action when they negotiate their leases.

 

[BuzzH]

Lots of NR's to blame in this mess too.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

This bill has absolutely nothing to do with revenue, the GF budget, or putting off a resident fee increase. The Legislature doesn't care about any of that...

Connect the dots...

I connected enough dots when you told us a couple weeks ago that with your backing/lobbying the 90/10 was a slam dunk and it went down in Committee 4-1! Maybe you should stay for this flip flop as you so adamantly stated you were on MM and we'll win this one too! Sarcasm intended! :hump:

 

[MNElkNut]

As I read this thread I cannot help but think we got another gut punch coming. I sent emails to every one of the Senate committee members with no replies. I want to somehow take my kids western hunting from when they turn 12 to when they go to college. I assume that my kids are going to grow up to be avid hunters, but they may not be able to go out west after they have a career and families, etc. If they can't go, I want to look back on my life and say that I had the time of my life hunting with them when I could. I have 3 kids. How can an average guy afford this if they keep messing with the fees and license structures? I know this bill doesn't slam the door, but incrementally, the states are going to screw this up, aren't they? And if the states don't, the Feds are willing and able to screw it up as well! Some how, some way, I will make it happen! Hold me to that promise guys!

All right, enough pissing and moaning from me! Buzz, Thanks for fighting the fight! Not like there is any pressure on you or anything, but my twin 6 year old boys are depending on you man!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Popgun, I hope you win this one...but I can tell you, from being in the trenches and not at my desk in Michigan...it isn't looking good.

"we" better get his ass in gear...

mnelknut,

I agree with you completely, doing what I can. I have verbal confirmation from a few of the right folks that they oppose it...but not enough to kill it.

In the meantime keep the pressure on.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Popgun, I hope you win this one...but I can tell you, from being in the trenches and not at my desk in Michigan...it isn't looking good.

"we" better get his ass in gear...

mnelknut,

I agree with you completely, doing what I can. I have verbal confirmation from a few of the right folks that they oppose it...but not enough to kill it.

In the meantime keep the pressure on.

So let me get this straight while I do what I can, as I always do from my desk here in MI on all this political BS! Last week you stated you had no choice but to back this Bill (black & white posts on MM) that the WYOGA brought forth because it was in the best interests of the G&F budget before you could roll up your sleeves and get to work on the other issues! That definitely put you on the side of the WYOGA, but because I was against the 90/10 split that they also went against it makes me one bad SOB, LOL! Talk about a real flip flop now and you call me floppy and Flopgun! Then when members call you out on it you come up with this lame excuse here as to why you did what you did---get real man, as at least a fair number of us can see through the smokescreen! I'll quit now so the thread can stay on track and not get locked like the last one did when you made all of your nasty remarks towards me and what I always try to do to stay involved and help all sportspersons from my desk here in MI!

 

[BuzzH]

Not going to repeat myself.

You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and what the real issues are. If you honestly think these bills are about 78 tags or a 20% swing in a tiered license fee structure, I truly feel sorry for you.

I'm actually glad you don't know what I know...you struggle with the simple stuff.

 

[jimss]

I’m not buying into the theory that regular priced tags are for nonguided DIY/OYO ave Joe hunters and special priced tags are for wealthy guided hunters. How many guys read my earlier post? I actually don’t feel the least bit of sympathy for those that complain that they won’t be able to hunt Wyo with their families and kids if a higher proportion of tags go into the special pool. I would think ave Joe’s may actually be able to teach their kids a great lesson if their kids are responsible for paying for at least part of their hunting license. God forbid it might get some kids off the couch and video games if they are given the choice between working to pay for an upcoming tag/hunt or not going hunting! As pointed out earlier there are a lot of ave Joes DIY/OYO hunters that budget, skimp and save all year round for upcoming hunts…..me being one of them! I would also venture a guess that not all nonres hunt out of state each year? That means you have several years to save up for tags and hunts. The price difference between regular and special tag is piddly if an ave Joe is willing to budget and save up cash. It doesn't sound like some are willing to do this? I’m not buying into it that regular priced tags are for ave Joes and special are for wealthy guided hunters! How many ave Joe DIY/OYO hunters are willing to fork out $100/year for a Garth Carter newsletter for goodness sakes! If you think about it the $200 from 2 years subscription is just about the difference between a regular and special priced antelope or deer tag!

On a positive note, the 60/40 split would bring a reasonable amount of new revenue to the WG&F without increasing both Wyo res or nonres reg and special tag fees by one penny. In years with more tags the revenue from the 60/40 split would be even higher than lean tag years like 2014. The same number of total nonres tags would be issued....which is an added bonus!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Do you have kids?

 

[BuzzH]

jims,

Believe what you want, all you have to do is look who brought the bill to the legislature and who wanted the original tiered license fee bill.

I'd try to explain it further, but your lack of understanding on all things related to the GF, Legislature, statute, regulation, gf budget, etc. etc. would flat make it impossible...even if I owned a crayon factory.

Most people here get it...don't you find it funny you're the only one who doesn't?