FOIA - $150 WY NR Wilderness Rule Fine amount; WY 23-2-401(a)

[BuzzH]

I'll start bitching about it again on Dec 2nd then. Just so I can live rent free in your skull again for a while until I get bored with it.

Well, whining is your strong suit...clocks ticking. Figured you weren't serious, but I am.

 

[Scott85]

Per taxpayer? Not hardly.

$1.84 per person in Wyoming using 2021 numbers.

 

[Archer86]

Driving a stake in this one for you and Sytes.

1. There is no taking this case to court and winning, zero chance. It's been tried and now with Reids rider, no chance at all. That's off the table.

2. I'll get you that bill repealed, but you better take a poll of NR hunters before I start, because you're going to pay for it.

I'll call WOGA, TRW, and have a bill sponsor in a couple weeks.

What I'll propose is 90/10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn that will get all the resident support to get it passed. I'll offer WOGA half of the remaining 10%, leaving DIY NRs 5%.

The legislation will include repealing the wilderness guide law, passing 90-10, and giving outfitters their set aside...all in one bill.

One time offer and I'm dead serious and I have the ability to make it happen.


Put up or put a cork in it...say when.

Residents want a friends and family pool also. So maybe we can propose 40 to outfitters 40 resident sponsored friends and family then maybe 20 to the diy guys...

 

[Irrelevant]

I think a point a lot of you may not fully appreciate is that many resident hunters also favor this restriction. Right or wrong, many consider it a perk, one they are particularly passionate about. It isn't just a battle between WYOGA and DIY hunters, it's much more complicated. Unfortunately, it isn't a bargaining chip many resident hunters are willing to push into the pot.

I can totally see why. I mean what logical resident wouldn't support it? If I could keep all of Portland out of the Mt Adam's wilderness, or better yet the entire Gifford Pinchot NF, I damn sure would make that deal. The mountain might actually be worth hiking and skiing it again.

I mean the only reason not to support excluding us NRs entirely is simply financial. You solve that one and we'd be written out of the equation the next session.

 

[Sytes]

1. There is no taking this case to court and winning, zero chance. It's been tried and now with Reids rider, no chance at all. That's off the table.

2. I'll get you that bill repealed, but you better take a poll of NR hunters before I start, because you're going to pay for it.

I'll call WOGA, TRW, and have a bill sponsor in a couple weeks.

What I'll propose is 90/10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn that will get all the resident support to get it passed. I'll offer WOGA half of the remaining 10%, leaving DIY NRs 5%.

The legislation will include repealing the wilderness guide law, passing 90-10, and giving outfitters their set aside...all in one bill.

One time offer and I'm dead serious and I have the ability to make it happen.


Put up or put a cork in it...say when.

Here - we're actually discussing something you are "dead serious" to act upon. I know your intent is to selectively quote single lines and stretch outside the poster's intent though hey, not our first rodeo with that, Buzz. I'm game.

Always ballot initiatives... Though I believe Appaloosa hit the nail on the head. Wyoming has always been firm on State sovereignty. Something I admire.

I dig sharing ideas. I believe it's the foundation's building blocks. You want to play Thor's hammer... The novelty of internet forums.

Speaking of Deer and Elk:

Meat and potatoes of this - Draw tags currently 80/20 overall with the caveat 84/16 for the great wapiti. With OTC for general Areas.

I like the basis of Idaho's NR five year rolling percentage for draws (10-15% roughly?) I think Colorado is off their keister for 35% NR though, that's Colorado. Montana, well, I'm used to Montana's 10% NR.

My thought... 85/15 for all drawn areas. Beats 80/20, +% for wapiti. 5% enters WYOGA welfare system, 10% Draw to NR DIY. I believe if they are immediate family from out of State, a resident may enter them into a Resident party pool, certifying the NR's are immediate family. Friends? I see abuse all over that. Hell, there's abuse period... though friends fall under the NR 10%. They draw? They draw. Outside this? OTC remains, as is.

*This is a rough sketch.

Have at it, Buzz.

 

[brocksw]

Always ballot initiatives...

Buzz didn't say that's an option, so it's not real and you shouldn't be talking about it. I know this is America, but the first amendment doesn't apply to discussions with Buzz. Either agree with Buzz, bow to him, and tattoo his name on your ass, or leave. You're not allowed to share your thoughts, opinions, etc on a public forum involving things Buzz has an opinion on. How did you not know this?

 

[Sytes]

He's going to rail my comment regardless. Haha!

 

[brocksw]

He's going to rail my comment regardless. Haha!

As sure as the sun will rise.

What's painful is that near the beginning I even said "I understand Buzz's perspective and forgive him for it". As in, "yeah, we know the background, but it doesn't make this law any less stupid". It's like good lord man. Get real.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz didn't say that's an option, so it's not real and you shouldn't be talking about it. I know this is America, but the first amendment doesn't apply to discussions with Buzz. Either agree with Buzz, bow to him, and tattoo his name on your ass, or leave. You're not allowed to share your thoughts, opinions, etc on a public forum involving things Buzz has an opinion on. How did you not know this?

It's not an option...residents won't support it, there's nothing in it for them. They can currently hunt wilderness with their friends and family already.

You aren't thinking this through, plus a ballot initiative costs money, why would residents spend money for something they already have? You do realize who's signatures you need? You also realize Wyoming has the highest threshold of signature requirements of all 50 states?

My bill will stay as I already stated...no amendments. My bill is the only way to your Nirvana, and that's a fact.

Clock is ticking....

 

[Straight Arrow]

Wyoming has always been firm on State sovereignty.

Not really a state sovereignty issue. Wildlife management and related hunting regulations by states are based on the Public Trust Doctrine.

Otherwise an interesting perspective, Sytes.

 

[brocksw]

It's not an option...residents won't support it, there's nothing in it for them. They can currently hunt wilderness with their friends and family already.

You aren't thinking this through, plus a ballot initiative costs money, why would residents spend money for something they already have? You do realize who's signatures you need? You also realize Wyoming has the highest threshold of signature requirements of all 50 states?

My bill will stay as I already stated...no amendments. My bill is the only way to your Nirvana, and that's a fact.

Clock is ticking....

Buzz, I didn't ask you. Please don't interrupt. It's rude.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, we didn't ask you. Please don't interrupt conversations between Sytes and I. It's rude.

This is like a poker game, I have the biggest stack at the table and flopped the nuts. You have a chip and a chair holding rags...

I call the shots and you have a one time offer.

You're out of position and have no other move, I'm not bluffing and we both know it.

You want the law repealed or not...

Clocks ticking...

 

[brocksw]

This is like a poker game, I have the biggest stack at the table and flopped the nuts. You have a chip and a chair holding rags...

I call the shots and you have a one time offer.

You're out of position and have no other move, I'm not bluffing and we both know it.

You want the law repealed or not...

Clocks ticking...

How do ya figure? Sounds to me like woga has the biggest stack and they're calling the shots. You're just the messenger.

 

[BuzzH]

How do ya figure? Sounds to me like woga has the biggest stack and they're calling the shots. You're just the messenger.

Bullshit they do...they don't get their set aside without giving residents 90-10 for deer, elk and pronghorn. You dont get the wilderness law repealed without giving the outfitters half your tags.

I'm content sitting on the big stack, my buddies and family have free wilderness access, I have more tags than I can use, and I'm content with current tag splits. It's everyone else that wants something extra. Both you and WOGA are going to give me what's left of your stack to get what you want...no checks.

This isnt the minor leagues...and there's one game in town.

You won't get a better offer to get the wilderness guide law repealed in this lifetime...fact.

 

[schmalts]

I don't know if has changed but a decade ago I think I found a loophole to hunting the wilderness as a nonresident. I was talking to a lady at the F&G about what all the things that qualified as being able to hunt the wilderness. One of them was to be guided. The guide test was fairly cheap, and was online if I recall. She said you can't guide yourself though. So I asked what if me and another person were both a guide and he guided me and I guided him? There was a lot of silence....... Again, things may have changed. But what I gathered from that conversation taking the cheap guide test and go with another guide and it might be the loophole. After all, a guide can't get mauled by a bear cuz he has super immunity. And it is probably enough that a warden would leave you alone as he might not even know what the rules would be since the person on the phone seemed stumped a bit.

 

[BuzzH]

How do ya figure? Sounds to me like woga has the biggest stack and they're calling the shots. You're just the messenger.

Just so you know your position, I'm your only friend in this game. Anytime the residents want to get 90-10, all we have to do is split the pie in half with WOGA and give them 5% of nr tags. The wilderness law would stay in place...you get zippo

I'm offering you a slice of the pie that is the opportunity to get the wilderness law repealed...because I know how bad WOGA wants the set aside.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't know if has changed but a decade ago I think I found a loophole to hunting the wilderness as a nonresident. I was talking to a lady at the F&G about what all the things that qualified as being able to hunt the wilderness. One of them was to be guided. The guide test was fairly cheap, and was online if I recall. She said you can't guide yourself though. So I asked what if me and another person were both a guide and he guided me and I guided him? There was a lot of silence....... Again, things may have changed. But what I gathered from that conversation taking the cheap guide test and go with another guide and it might be the loophole. After all, a guide can't get mauled by a bear cuz he has super immunity. And it is probably enough that a warden would leave you alone as he might not even know what the rules would be since the person on the phone seemed stumped a bit.

You have to be sponsored by an outfitter I believe.

 

[schmalts]

You have to be sponsored by an outfitter I believe.

You believe or your are positive? At that time with the person I talked to there was no positive

 

[JLS]

You believe or your are positive?

I would wager 1) a guide cannot operate without a sponsoring outfitter and 2) every outfitter must be permitted by the national forest.

I guarantee 2 is true and I’ll bet steak dinner on 1.

 

[BuzzH]

You believe or your are positive? At that time with the person I talked to there was no positive

JM77 would know for sure but I think he was the one told me you need a sponsor. Also, you couldn't both hunt simultaneously...