FOIA - $150 WY NR Wilderness Rule Fine amount; WY 23-2-401(a)

[BuzzH]

Yes, residents get a 1 week head start for birds. But no restrictions on where. You could still hunt deer on public lands while you wait, you know with your unlimited NR white tail tag. How many unlimited big game tags does wy offer to NR?

Youre more than welcome to cry about it, Buzz. One difference between you and me, is if you choose to "whine" about it here or anywhere else, I won't get my panties in a wad over it, or tell you to quit your whining, or tell you to stop running your mouth, or tell you that you're just a lazy bum who doesn't do anything. Like a sane and civil person I am willing to listen and have a conversation about it.

There is a difference, I don't give a chit what ND does to benefit their economy or their resident hunters. I think what ND does for their residents is a good thing, I have no grievance or ax to grind about it. WY finally gets a 90-10 split on moose and nearly 100% of the NR's are screaming bloody murder, while ND issues more tags and not a single one to NR's.

But, when WY does the same thing to give their Residents an advantage...the high pitched whining is incessant.

Like I've said numerous times, Wyoming's generosity has resulted in NR entitlement here, sick of it.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes, residents get a 1 week head start for birds. But no restrictions on where. You could still hunt deer on public lands while you wait, you know with your unlimited NR white tail tag. How many unlimited big game tags does wy offer to NR?

Youre more than welcome to cry about it, Buzz. One difference between you and me, is if you choose to "whine" about it here or anywhere else, I won't get my panties in a wad over it, or tell you to quit your whining, or tell you to stop running your mouth, or tell you that you're just a lazy bum who doesn't do anything. Like a sane and civil person I am willing to listen and have a conversation about it.

WY offers unlimited bear and lion a shot at 100% of the every leftover tag in the second draw, 100% of all the tags Residents don't draw in the initial draw for deer and pronghorn, 100% opportunity at any leftover tags after the second draw.

Yeah, we're pretty rough on a NR's ability to hunt WY...what a joke.

 

[brocksw]

WY offers unlimited bear and lion a shot at 100% of the every leftover tag in the second draw, 100% of all the tags Residents don't draw in the initial draw for deer and pronghorn, 100% opportunity at any leftover tags after the second draw.

Yeah, we're pretty rough on a NR's ability to hunt WY...what a joke.

So basically everything ND cant even give the residents because of a lack of critters.

Ok Buzz.

 

[BuzzH]

So basically everything ND cant even give the residents because of a lack of critters.

Ok Buzz.

ND issue's more moose tags than WY, what's your excuse? BTW, I think its a good thing ND reserves those for its residents, WY should do the same with bison, grizzlies, goats, moose and sheep.

Lets not also forget about the region deer tags, 20% of all LQ pronghorn and deer tags in the initial draw, and 16% of LQ elk tags, and 4K general elk tags.

So stingy...

And, an easy way for you to hunt designated wilderness without paying a dime, what your entire tantrum is about.

Find another shoulder to cry on...

 

[brocksw]

ND issue's more moose tags than WY, what's your excuse? BTW, I think its a good thing ND reserves those for its residents, WY should do the same with bison, grizzlies, goats, moose and sheep.

Lets not also forget about the region deer tags, 20% of all LQ pronghorn and deer tags in the initial draw, and 16% of LQ elk tags, and 4K general elk tags.

So stingy...

Like I stated Buzz, I would personally support giving NR access to ND Moose and elk.

But keep in mind, we give out a few hundred elk tags for the whole state! You're talking 10s of thousands of tags to work with in Wy. You have more deer, elk, bears, sheep, literally everything except moose and birds and it's not even close.

Tantrum? I think the only one here in a "tantrum" is you.

 

[Irrelevant]

As a NR, what do you want to "give up" in exchange for changing the wilderness guide law? Based on the dry run we just saw, it will be guaranteed tags, outfitter set asides, more landowner tags, huge price increases, less tags available in the DIY pool, etc. That's not hyperbole, those were the items in play for a small change in limited entry license allocation.

Just to play devil's advocate. Who's to say that we won't see all that while NR's are still wilderness restricted?

There's an argument to be made that from a NR standpoint maybe it's worth "giving" up something for something in return, while we still have something to give up.

 

[BuzzH]

Like I stated Buzz, I would personally support giving NR access to ND Moose and elk.

But keep in mind, we give out a few hundred elk tags for the whole state! You're talking 10s of thousands of tags to work with in Wy. You have more deer, elk, bears, sheep, literally everything except moose and birds and it's not even close.

Tantrum? I think the only one here in a "tantrum" is you.

The area I put in for elk gives out 50 tags...NR's get 16% of them.

Keep trying...and like I said, I support ND keeping all the opportunity for their residents on elk, sheep, and moose.

Not sure why you'd be upset when other states do the same?

 

[BuzzH]

Just to play devil's advocate. Who's to say that we won't see all that while NR's are still wilderness restricted?

There's an argument to be made that from a NR standpoint maybe it's worth "giving" up something for something in return, while we still have something to give up.

Because Residents won't let it happen...the residents that just "roll over" for WOGA.

Should have let me know earlier you wanted to give outfitters a set aside for wilderness access, could have made that happen.

 

[Irrelevant]

Because Residents won't let it happen...

For now.
I find the longer I pay attention the more things happen that I swore would/could never happen. The good guy doesn't always win, no matter how hard you fight for what's right.

Maybe some of our (WA) recent losses just sting a little too bad still, but I feel like you can't count on anything staying the same and not getting worse. From wildlife, to habitat, to access, hell there are days I fear it's all doomed. Very few things seem to get better, and even when they do, it still feels temporary.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Just to play devil's advocate. Who's to say that we won't see all that while NR's are still wilderness restricted?

There's an argument to be made that from a NR standpoint maybe it's worth "giving" up something for something in return, while we still have something to give up.

I guess it's possible you might. They literally just tried that exact thing through the taskforce, and quite a few people made a lot of phone calls, e-mails, and personal trips to successfully rebuff it for now. I maintain that set asides and reduction in available DIY NR tags in exchange for wilderness access would not be a trade worth pursuing.

 

[Irrelevant]

I guess it's possible you might. They literally just tried that exact thing through the taskforce, and quite a few people made a lot of phone calls, e-mails, and personal trips to successfully rebuff it for now. I maintain that set asides and reduction in available DIY NR tags in exchange for wilderness access would not be a trade worth pursuing.

I was one of those emailers pushing against it, but that didn't mean I didn't or can't see some merit in it.

I guess my point was just that it can be a bit frustrating, albeit selfishly, to make the time to advocate for WY wildlife and license issues while being kept out of some of the wildest country left in the lower 48 by some idiotic law that is only benefiting those same interests we're asked to lobby against.

While I have some skin the game in that I buy WY points and hunt there when I can (may actually switch my wt doe trip to WY from MT), I would have likely still sent an email or two even if that wasn't the case. I feel like DIY hunters need to band together against the Outfitter & Guides commercial interests, I feeling that seems to be shared by the HT community.

But per my recent conversations with WDFW they didn't receive a whole lot of comments from NR hunters when they shut down our spring bear season last year, maybe that's not true or is simply dwarfed by the onslaught of NR anti-hunting comments they received, IDK. It's sorta irrelevant. But how many times have NRs been called on to defend elk or mule deer in MT, licenses in WY, public land in ID... but WA or CA bear... meh.

I recognize that doing the "right thing" shouldn't have to be a "I'll scratch yours if you scratch mine" type of deal, but then the whole sticking together of DIY hunters seems to be a bit one directional right now.

 

[brocksw]

I was one of those emailers pushing against it, but that didn't mean I didn't or can't see some merit in it.

I guess my point was just that it can be a bit frustrating, albeit selfishly, to make the time to advocate for WY wildlife and license issues while being kept out of some of the wildest country left in the lower 48 by some idiotic law that is only benefiting those same interests we're asked to lobby against.

While I have some skin the game in that I buy WY points and hunt there when I can (may actually switch my wt doe trip to WY from MT), I would have likely still sent an email or two even if that wasn't the case. I feel like DIY hunters need to band together against the Outfitter & Guides commercial interests, I feeling that seems to be shared by the HT community.

But per my recent conversations with WDFW they didn't receive a whole lot of comments from NR hunters when they shut down our spring bear season last year, maybe that's not true or is simply dwarfed by the onslaught of NR anti-hunting comments they received, IDK. It's sorta irrelevant. But how many times have NRs been called on to defend elk or mule deer in MT, licenses in WY, public land in ID... but WA or CA bear... meh.

I recognize that doing the "right thing" shouldn't have to be a "I'll scratch yours if you scratch mine" type of deal, but then sticking together of DYI hunters seems to be a bit one directional.

We're not allowed to talk about this anymore. Don't even think thoughts about it.

But also remember, there's no reason to Pander to landowners and outfitters to get access. Unless it's Wilderness, then pandering is the only option.

 

[Sytes]

If only obviously, stopping bad legislation from the beginning is just a bit different than repealing existing law that has been upheld in court for 4-5 decades.

Anyone that's involved at all would recognize that.

Stopping bad legislation is easier, yep. Anyone with a brain can acknowledge that. The difference, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Leadership fails to even take a position on this.

It's not to say, "We are opposed to WYOGA's State mandated client pool, aka welfare", it's to say, "It's too hard". We refrain from sharing BHA's position on the Wyoming State sanctioned, WYOGA welfare system.

But hey, it starts somewhere.

Anyone involved at all clearly recognizes that, to borrow your words.

 

[appaloosa]

I think a point a lot of you may not fully appreciate is that many resident hunters also favor this restriction. Right or wrong, many consider it a perk, one they are particularly passionate about. It isn't just a battle between WYOGA and DIY hunters, it's much more complicated. Unfortunately, it isn't a bargaining chip many resident hunters are willing to push into the pot.

 

[BuzzH]

We're not allowed to talk about this anymore. Don't even think thoughts about it.

But also remember, there's no reason to Pander to landowners and outfitters to get access. Unless it's Wilderness, then pandering is the only option.

View attachment 246556

Driving a stake in this one for you and Sytes.

1. There is no taking this case to court and winning, zero chance. It's been tried and now with Reids rider, no chance at all. That's off the table.

2. I'll get you that bill repealed, but you better take a poll of NR hunters before I start, because you're going to pay for it.

I'll call WOGA, TRW, and have a bill sponsor in a couple weeks.

What I'll propose is 90/10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn that will get all the resident support to get it passed. I'll offer WOGA half of the remaining 10%, leaving DIY NRs 5%.

The legislation will include repealing the wilderness guide law, passing 90-10, and giving outfitters their set aside...all in one bill.

One time offer and I'm dead serious and I have the ability to make it happen.


Put up or put a cork in it...say when.

 

[brocksw]

Driving a stake in this one for you and Sytes.

1. There is no taking this case to court and winning, zero chance. It's been tried and now with Reids rider, no chance at all. That's off the table.

2. I'll get you that bill repealed, but you better take a poll of NR hunters before I start, because you're going to pay for it.

I'll call WOGA, TRW, and have a bill sponsor in a couple weeks.

What I'll propose is 90/10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn that will get all the resident support to get it passed. I'll offer WOGA half of the remaining 10%, leaving DIY NRs 5%.

The legislation will include repealing the wilderness guide law, passing 90-10, and giving outfitters their set aside...all in one bill.

One time offer and I'm dead serious and I have the ability to make it happen.


Put up or put a cork in it...say when.

I'd rather just talk "whine" about it on HT. Wouldn't want you thinking I'm doing anything other than watching in wonder.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Driving a stake in this one for you and Sytes.

1. There is no taking this case to court and winning, zero chance. It's been tried and now with Reids rider, no chance at all. That's off the table.

2. I'll get you that bill repealed, but you better take a poll of NR hunters before I start, because you're going to pay for it.

I'll call WOGA, TRW, and have a bill sponsor in a couple weeks.

What I'll propose is 90/10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn that will get all the resident support to get it passed. I'll offer WOGA half of the remaining 10%, leaving DIY NRs 5%.

The legislation will include repealing the wilderness guide law, passing 90-10, and giving outfitters their set aside...all in one bill.

One time offer and I'm dead serious and I have the ability to make it happen.


Put up or put a cork in it...say when.

 

[BuzzH]

I'd rather just talk "whine" about it on HT. Wouldn't want you thinking I'm doing anything other than watching in wonder.

You want your access or not, I'll give you until COB December 1...time to shit or get off the pot.

 

[brocksw]

You want your access or not, I'll give you until COB December 1...time to shit or get off the pot.

I'll start bitching about it again on Dec 2nd then. Just so I can live rent free in your skull again for a while until I get bored with it.

 

[BuzzH]

View attachment 246568

I'll give the brain trust some time to get their emotions in order.