Ever feel frustrated?

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

I find it interesting how many people on HT are so against new hunters.

I thought new hunter recruitment and retention was one of our goals?

I understand the aversion to giving away you honey-hole, special spot, best hunting place. What I do not understand is the lack of support for a generalized discussion about an area.

ANYONE who spends more than a casual week on any hunting forum will be well informed of most of the resources out there. There are banner adds everywhere for goHunt, onX, and the state "planner" websites. All this information should be considered common knowledge by now. Heck, I am from Tennessee and I found all the land owned and leased by a prominent Elk outfitter in a western state just by searching it on one of these programs.

With the invention of, and highly promoted, E-scouting touted by our HT owner and proprietor, you would think that people on here would be a little more open to sharing the tidbits (privately) about areas they may have hunted in the past. I have no secrets, and if someone posts a question about an area I have hunted, I feel obligated to point out things I learned about the unit and places overlooked by most.

My frustration comes when every time a newer hunter posts a thread asking for a some help, the forum (police) immediately jump the thread and go into "don't tell people about hunting xxx, it might actually cause them to go" mode. What the &@*%???

THIS is the reason why people who should be hunting, don't. Some of you will say, "good riddance", or "more for me then". But I feel you are missing the bigger picture.

I live in one of the most biological diverse locations in the entire US, The Great Smoky Mountain National Park area. We have whitetail, turkey, black bear, elk, and a lot of other fowl, fish, and small game animals. I openly share my knowledge of the area with NR hunters, hikers, and visitors so that they can be successful. This is how we help them continue to personally grow, and grow the sport. These NR are only around for a few weeks, shunning them because you are greedy is not helping anyone in the grander scheme of things.

You want to know why NR hunters hire outfitters and pay more for a hunt. Because of the people who are not willing to share hunting knowledge. Currently a western state is entertaining the idea of slashing NR tags and giving a lot more to outfitters. I would normally jump on the opportunity to write an actual letter to the governor and state legislatures about this proposed bill to try and sway their thoughts. But honestly, as the time goes on, I see how we treat our own here on HT, and I question as a TN resident why we let so many of you openly come hunt my state when you are not willing to reciprocate.

Some final thoughts and then I will don my flame suit for what will most definitely be a CA wildfire.
First, we all started somewhere. No one was born with all the knowledge of every unit in every state to hunt.
Secondly, treating others as you would like to be treated could go a long way to improve how we perceive ourselves and other hunters.
Lastly, if you want to hunt Tennessee black bears, turkey, hogs, or whitetails, hit me up and I will try and help you be successful in your hunt.

 

[Dsnow9]

I see your point and think it is a good one. I think the point that frustrates most people is when a person signs on for the first time, posts on the public forum, asks for info on a certain area “but not a honey hole” and then never responds or posts again. I think that is where a lot of the frustrations come from. I would like to think most people would help someone out with pointers and info on an area if they were familiar with the person or at the very least did some research in previous posts and pm’d people or just went about the public post in a different way.

 

[rwc101]

I find it interesting how many people on HT are so against new hunters.

I don't think this is true at all. As @Dsnow9 pointed out, some people make poor choices when they join the forum and expect honey holes right off the bat. I went to Buzz's butchery class this week, and I saw a lot of experienced hunters enthusiastically helping out new/future hunters. Not sure how many of them are also on HuntTalk, but the crowd in attendance seemed reflective of the forum. I swapped numbers with a few future hunters and I'm going to set up a range day for at least one. They showed up to the butchery class eager to get their hands dirty (well, bloody) they were rewarded for it with a lot of advice from experienced hunters (not me, I'm a hack).

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

It's pretty easy to decipher who really wants to hunt or learn to hunt better in an area their unfamiliar with by their posts and who is just hoping the forum members do all the work for them. The genuine of the two alway get PMs from me if I have any knowledge that could help them.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Example post: 2020 mule deer hunt.
"Heading west for first time this year to colorado anybody have some information for me. Not looking for honey holes just places to go".

Well where u going in CO?
They obviously have not done one bit of research on the state or they would be more specific.
Well are you archery or gun hunting?
They obviously have not done any research or they would be more specific.

These types just want someone to magically say "go to Johnny ridge in unit 54 and focus on Johnny Jr. draw and big creek draw between sept 8th and 15th"

 

[JohnCushman]

As others have said, I don't think any of us are against new hunters. When constantly getting new guys coming on and within a post or two asking for information or honey holes or anything like that, wanting to help anyone gets old. Over the 10 years I've been on this forum, there's a small handful of guys who last here beyond a first post wanting help. It seems that pointing a newb in a direction of being able to help themselves isn't liked, so they just leave. I guess I am kind of old school in my idea of helping people. When my ex wife decided she wanted to hunt antelope, I took her out quite a few times to our hunting area and gave her maps and whatnot and let her decide where we should hunt. If we saw nothing, it was on her, but she put in the work. I have not had a problem helping a new person, hell, I've even given guys grid coordinates to my hunting areas before, but you need to get a feel for the guy and what work they have done for themselves before something like that happens. I'll give a general area to guys, but my 'honey holes' are mine. But, from watching the forum for a while, most new guys that come on looking for direction don't want to put in the work for themselves and it gets old.

 

[HuntTalk Freak]

I PM’d a guy some info on a unit last week. He actually asked about some specific spots in that unit so I knew he had been doing some decent e-scouting. I was happy to let him know what I had seen/or didn’t see.

Being new to western NR hunting myself I don’t see a problem helping in situations like that. A lot of us guys getting into it late in the game probably aren’t gonna be coming out year after year like guys who have been doing it their whole life. It might even be a once in a lifetime hunt for some guys.

I agree on the whole sign up, post a question then never post again thing. Sometimes you see the same guy ask on multiple forums.

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

It's pretty easy to decipher who really wants to hunt or learn to hunt better in an area their unfamiliar with by their posts and who is just hoping the forum members do all the work for them. The genuine of the two alway get PMs from me if I have any knowledge that could help them.

I absolutely agree with this right here. I see a lot of "just tell me where to hunt posts". But when someone actually put in the time to have a discussion about a hunting area with actual good information that is public knowledge and is then shunned by multiple individuals because they actually might help people go hunting is counter-intuitive to me.

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

As others have said, I don't think any of us are against new hunters. When constantly getting new guys coming on and within a post or two asking for information or honey holes or anything like that, wanting to help anyone gets old. Over the 10 years I've been on this forum, there's a small handful of guys who last here beyond a first post wanting help. It seems that pointing a newb in a direction of being able to help themselves isn't liked, so they just leave. I guess I am kind of old school in my idea of helping people. When my ex wife decided she wanted to hunt antelope, I took her out quite a few times to our hunting area and gave her maps and whatnot and let her decide where we should hunt. If we saw nothing, it was on her, but she put in the work. I have not had a problem helping a new person, hell, I've even given guys grid coordinates to my hunting areas before, but you need to get a feel for the guy and what work they have done for themselves before something like that happens. I'll give a general area to guys, but my 'honey holes' are mine. But, from watching the forum for a while, most new guys that come on looking for direction don't want to put in the work for themselves and it gets old.

John,

I have seen and followed quite a few of your threads. You are one of the exceptions to the rule. "You get it" like I do. You help where you can. I think that pointing a HT newb to the public information is always a good start. People have done that for me here also.

My feelings are not hurt, I am just surprised by the amount of passive aggressive behavior on a lot of posts concerning hunting area discussions.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@TN_Rifle_Junkie
I find it interesting how many people on HT are so against new hunters. (Mostly not true)

I thought new hunter recruitment and retention was one of our goals? (Yep)

I understand the aversion to giving away you honey-hole, special spot, best hunting place. What I do not understand is the lack of support for a generalized discussion about an area. (The forum is public, aka "google-able" most members prefer information exchanges to be with known persons, one person will read a question but potentially thousands will read the reply)

ANYONE who spends more than a casual week on any hunting forum will be well informed of most of the resources out there. There are banner adds everywhere for goHunt, onX, and the state "planner" websites. All this information should be considered common knowledge by now. Heck, I am from Tennessee and I found all the land owned and leased by a prominent Elk outfitter in a western state just by searching it on one of these programs. (Agreed, this is a forum for public land hunters, not one of those planner resources, we don't get paid to give you tips)

With the invention of, and highly promoted, E-scouting touted by our HT owner and proprietor, you would think that people on here would be a little more open to sharing the tidbits (privately) about areas they may have hunted in the past. I have no secrets, and if someone posts a question about an area I have hunted, I feel obligated to point out things I learned about the unit and places overlooked by most. (All do respect, bull shit, or you don't have anything worth sharing... said from someone who joined in '15 with nothing worth sharing and now shares cause he still doesn't)

My frustration comes when every time a newer hunter posts a thread asking for a some help, the forum (police) immediately jump the thread and go into "don't tell people about hunting xxx, it might actually cause them to go" mode. What the &@*%??? (If you don't have the perseverance to get through a little hazing good luck with the elk)

THIS is the reason why people who should be hunting, don't. Some of you will say, "good riddance", or "more for me then". But I feel you are missing the bigger picture. (Naaaaaa, there are reasons, rejection by a bunch of keyboard warriors on a forum isn't one of them)

I live in one of the most biological diverse locations in the entire US, The Great Smoky Mountain National Park area. We have whitetail, turkey, black bear, elk, and a lot of other fowl, fish, and small game animals. I openly share my knowledge of the area with NR hunters, hikers, and visitors so that they can be successful. This is how we help them continue to personally grow, and grow the sport. These NR are only around for a few weeks, shunning them because you are greedy beleaguered exploiters is not helping anyone in the grander scheme of things. (Yeah well we live in the west it's 24/7, 365 not a few weeks, and people are moving here by the hundreds of thousands, state populations are doubling in peoples life times, we have tourists here in the summer, during the winter skiing, fall and spring hunting and biking... it's a perpetual shit show of people, it drives our economies and pays our bills but also grates on our nerves)

You want to know why NR hunters hire outfitters and pay more for a hunt. Because of the people who are not willing to share hunting knowledge. Currently a western state is entertaining the idea of slashing NR tags and giving a lot more to outfitters. I would normally jump on the opportunity to write an actual letter to the governor and state legislatures about this proposed bill to try and sway their thoughts. But honestly, as the time goes on, I see how we treat our own here on HT, and I question as a TN resident why we let so many of you openly come hunt my state when you are not willing to reciprocate. (Dude, and I'm not trying to be a huge ass here... no one from CO, MT, WY, etc comes to TN to hunt, your NR are from Florida or Georgia... just the reality)

Some final thoughts and then I will don my flame suit for what will most definitely be a CA wildfire.
First, we all started somewhere. No one was born with all the knowledge of every unit in every state to hunt.
Secondly, treating others as you would like to be treated could go a long way to improve how we perceive ourselves and other hunters.
Lastly, if you want to hunt Tennessee black bears, turkey, hogs, or whitetails, hit me up and I will try and help you be successful in your hunt.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I joined the forum as a non hunting adult, hung around for a couple of years, engaged with some great folks, and learned a ton. To be honest I think hunting spots are the least valuable thing the forum has to offer... if that's what your looking for there is a Doc Holiday meme for you.

What this forum does offer, in spades, is 1. a diverse, active, and supportive hunting community and 2. a profusion of knowledge about, e-scouting, habitat, regulations, equipment, tactics

The motto of the forum seems to be: "Give a man a hunting spot and he hunts for a season; teach a man to find his own spots and you feed him for a lifetime.”

Some parting words, search the forums for threads about first timers sharing their hunts... might help you understand why people stick around.

 

[bushman13]

It's because the exclusivity of the western big game tag. People will not share a spot and from that they get tired of the same old newb hunter questions.

If we were in whitetail country in the South, the response would be "c'mon"

I find it interesting how many people on HT are so against new hunters.

I thought new hunter recruitment and retention was one of our goals?

I understand the aversion to giving away you honey-hole, special spot, best hunting place. What I do not understand is the lack of support for a generalized discussion about an area.

ANYONE who spends more than a casual week on any hunting forum will be well informed of most of the resources out there. There are banner adds everywhere for goHunt, onX, and the state "planner" websites. All this information should be considered common knowledge by now. Heck, I am from Tennessee and I found all the land owned and leased by a prominent Elk outfitter in a western state just by searching it on one of these programs.

With the invention of, and highly promoted, E-scouting touted by our HT owner and proprietor, you would think that people on here would be a little more open to sharing the tidbits (privately) about areas they may have hunted in the past. I have no secrets, and if someone posts a question about an area I have hunted, I feel obligated to point out things I learned about the unit and places overlooked by most.

My frustration comes when every time a newer hunter posts a thread asking for a some help, the forum (police) immediately jump the thread and go into "don't tell people about hunting xxx, it might actually cause them to go" mode. What the &@*%???

THIS is the reason why people who should be hunting, don't. Some of you will say, "good riddance", or "more for me then". But I feel you are missing the bigger picture.

I live in one of the most biological diverse locations in the entire US, The Great Smoky Mountain National Park area. We have whitetail, turkey, black bear, elk, and a lot of other fowl, fish, and small game animals. I openly share my knowledge of the area with NR hunters, hikers, and visitors so that they can be successful. This is how we help them continue to personally grow, and grow the sport. These NR are only around for a few weeks, shunning them because you are greedy is not helping anyone in the grander scheme of things.

You want to know why NR hunters hire outfitters and pay more for a hunt. Because of the people who are not willing to share hunting knowledge. Currently a western state is entertaining the idea of slashing NR tags and giving a lot more to outfitters. I would normally jump on the opportunity to write an actual letter to the governor and state legislatures about this proposed bill to try and sway their thoughts. But honestly, as the time goes on, I see how we treat our own here on HT, and I question as a TN resident why we let so many of you openly come hunt my state when you are not willing to reciprocate.

Some final thoughts and then I will don my flame suit for what will most definitely be a CA wildfire.
First, we all started somewhere. No one was born with all the knowledge of every unit in every state to hunt.
Secondly, treating others as you would like to be treated could go a long way to improve how we perceive ourselves and other hunters.
Lastly, if you want to hunt Tennessee black bears, turkey, hogs, or whitetails, hit me up and I will try and help you be successful in your hunt.

 

[VikingsGuy]

In addition to the good posts above, which I agree with (particularly about the lack of forum engagement by some of the 1 time posters), another issue is the "google factor" relating to draws. HT may feel like a casual conversation between 30 or 40 guys, but for every active poster there are hundreds of registered users who rarely post and thousands of google search result views. Posting that "unit 9 in WY is a hidden gem" on an open forum can result in hundreds of additional applications for that unit thereby significantly diluting the opportunities for those who are actually doing their own homework.

I agree that general advice should be readily given, and in fact I think it is. I don't ever recall anything but a welcome response to "what states are good for a first time hunter" or "what should I have in my first aid kit", "can you explain how the otc tags work in ID", "how much cooler space do I need for a boned out elk", "what's your favorite cow call" "where can I get dry ice when hunting near Cheynne" or "is it OK for a man to carry a creedmoor in the field", etc.. I was a new comer a few years ago, and the members on this forum where super helpful, but I understood that specific unit info is something that should be earned by engagement and even then done over PM, not general posts. There are a hundred things a new hunter needs to know about hunting in the west - they really should ask about the 99 before worrying about the "which unit" question. Once they have figured out the rest and earned a little trust by the forum experts, the advice will be there - I have found HT to be a generous place.

As an aside, in my opinion hunter recruitment is an issue at the state/local level. I would guess the number of hunters hunting big game out of state in the the west has never been higher. The drop in hunters is more about MN, PA, MI, etc having little land available for new hunters to learn shooting squirrels and whitetails - the loss of the family tradition of hunting local or family land. The future of the sport needs a resurgence in hunting local much more than it needs more folks applying for sheep in the rocky mountains. Just my opinion, others may disagree.

 

[----]

whoops wrong thread

 

[rwc101]

The future of the sport needs a resurgence in hunting local much more than it needs more folks applying for sheep in the rocky mountains

Dude, and I'm not trying to be a huge ass here... no one from CO, MT, WY, etc comes to TN to hunt,

But I'll gladly go squirrel hunting with you when I'm visiting family in Mountain City.

 

[rwc101]

I thought this was hilarious before I read your correction. Still pretty funny though.

 

[bushman13]

It does go both ways though. Because the western hunter is not traveling to the Appalachians, they don't recognize the scarcity of critters in the Rockies.

"wllm1313 said:
Dude, and I'm not trying to be a huge ass here... no one from CO, MT, WY, etc comes to TN to hunt"

View attachment 128200

View attachment 128203
But I'll gladly go squirrel hunting with you when I'm visiting family in Mountain City.

 

[rwc101]

It does go both ways though. Because the western hunter is not traveling to the Appalachians, they don't recognize the scarcity of critters in the Rockies.

"wllm1313 said:
Dude, and I'm not trying to be a huge ass here... no one from CO, MT, WY, etc comes to TN to hunt"

I'm not traveling more than 20 miles to do it though.

 

[huronmtns]

Part of the fun and satisfaction for a hunt for me is selecting a hunting location and seeing if I can be successful in the area I have chosen. I have never asked a HT member for help with location. There is plenty of technology out there to learn about the game you are interested in with out direct questions about location. Just reading the hunting trip stories on this forum will teach a new hunter what obstacles they should be aware of. The trips I have been on in Wyoming have all been successful on the first day of hunting. Interaction between me and other hunters has been totally open at the hunting location not over the internet. Doing your own research and proving it works is very satisfying. I never hunt the same ground as I like the exploration factor. It's part of the adventure.

 

[jt13]

This place is as good of a community of relatively well informed, generally pleasant, and sometimes helpful individuals as you will find anywhere in the bubbling cesspools of the internet known as online hunting forums.

 

[2rocky]

The larger the audience, the lower the common denominator. Meaning the more "fly by info mining" posts we are going to see. Doesn't take much to search on an area and gather some of the particulars... Search Durfee hills on here as an example.

You know, Maybe a guy coming from 1500 miles away SHOULD go with an outfitter the first time just so he values the years of experience learning an area...because you could easily spend that much on a scouting jaunt and all the camping gear to do it themselves.

I've been fortunate enough to hunt seven Western States since I left home for college 18 years ago. I've drawn some dang good tags in that time as well. The info on those Good tags was easy to come by because they were scarce. Some of those people I developed relationships with online, and then in person.

You wouldn't walk into a bar in a new town, see a bunch of guys hanging out and shout "yo, where the bitches at?" that's the equivalent of what these info mining posts are.