Bears Ears and Gold Butte become National Monuments

[BuzzH]

dukes_daddy,

Yes, the more rural areas of Utah are re-electing Bishop, Lee, and Chaffetz, so they deserve blame for that. If they are wrong about PLT, then why is Utah not sending them packing?

If the surrounding 500K acres around devils tower were all federal...I'd have no problem with making that a monument...same with the black hills. And in particular if my State was suing the federal government for a transfer of those federal lands to the states.

As to the wolves in Wyoming...there are consequences when the states rural ranching/ag community makes a lame attempt to give the "feds" the finger. In particular when they agreed to certain terms and conditions regarding their wolf management plan. All this wolf issue confirms, is that letting locals have control of important issues, often lead to grand-standing and overreach of their authority. Locals just didn't know best and did the wrong thing with wolves in Wyoming. Playing Marlboro man bit them in the ass...hard.

 

[TheTone]

The Idaho hicks have no complaints, wolves are under state control there.

Last major wolf complaint I got was an overweight drunk woman attempting to bowhunt elk off an ATV, when I asked if she was seeing lots of sign she finally had to admit she hadn't actually seen a track in 5 years. Special people are all over the place

 

[OriginalOscar]

Dukes - what about the residents of UT who wanted a larger footprint for Bears Ears? Does their opinion matter? What about the tribes who wanted a larger role in management but only got co-management?

Two sides to every story, and saying the residents in surrounding communities didn't want it is glossing over those who did. I've seen several native owned businesses say they are glad this happened.

Whateconomic opportunity is lost to residents under the Monument designation? As you say, the likelihood of O&G development is very low. What other economic opportunities were on the horizon for the region beyond increasing tourism and livestock grazing - both of which are now protected by the order?

The core issue is process and scope. There are some remarkable areas in Bears Ears worth protecting and Utah's delegation was open to protecting some areas. The way the Antiquities Act is used is a paint brush approach and not the localized areas it was intended for.

The economic loss is whatever was possible in the future is no longer. Let's say nuclear power comes back in favor. No exploration or mining allowed. If a local wants to start a backcountry pack tour; they now have extremely restrictive (beyond wilderness) and permits required. Want to start a company making furniture from dead pinion and cedars; forget asking to gather wood. Grandpa passes on the grazing rights and you want to expand water sources to disperse the cows; forget adding anything new in the monument.

Utah is blessed and cursed with how we developed. We are blessed with the most stunning wilderness areas in America and we have vast wild areas. We are cursed that we didn't have extensive homesteading like MT, WY, CO. Native rights and federal monuments are never open for discussion in states that were settled, claimed and became majority private.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. It is appreciated.

 

[JB1]

I sure hope that nothing really changes, I enjoyed a nice upland hunt yesterday deep in the heart Gold Butte. Due to the drought success has not been as good as 10 years ago.

 

[6speed]

The core issue is process and scope. There are some remarkable areas in Bears Ears worth protecting and Utah's delegation was open to protecting some areas. The way the Antiquities Act is used is a paint brush approach and not the localized areas it was intended for.

Looks like Utah's delegation should have actually been proactive instead of just "open to protecting" those areas.

When Idaho's delegation was faced with a giant National Monument they stepped up and developed 3 new wilderness areas that accomplished what most wanted and pacified the rest.

Maybe Idaho should take over management of Utah (The previous sentence was written entirely in jest and does not require a lesson in the constitutionality of states rights)

 

[Rob Allen]

aggressive development??? that sounds very bad to my ears. The purpose of our wild places is not to provide for the economy. their purpose is to be wild places and that's worth more than a few temporary jobs in resource extraction.

t

 

[shootbrownelk]

So because our state leadership has taken a position pro PLT; people in rural Utah should be penalized? Agreed the federal jobs and funding are important to those local economies and the state leadership is wrong on PLT.

The Antiquities Act was intended to preserved the smallest possible area. To draw a line around 1.3M acres in rural Utah is extreme overreach.

Devils Tower was important to the native americans. How about 500,000 acre monument. Black Hills were also sacred. That one should be about 2.5M acres.

Why can't WY get state control of your wolves? Oh yeah something about telling the feds they were to be listed as vermin. That's a reasonable position that seems to be working well for you all.

Wyoming can't get State control of our Wolves because of the extreme position that the Agricultural/Ranching lobby took by having our AG/Rancher friendly legislature designate wolves as unprotected predators in 3/4 of Wyoming. Not something that most Wyoming sportspeople wanted. Our Legislature is top heavy with ranchers.

 

[NVBighorn]

I'm not going to take a position for or against Bear Ears NM. But I would like to address this idea that "locals" know best and their ideas, wants and opinions should be given preference. Remember the Bundy's? They are VERY "local" where they live. And they claim they OWN the land their cows run on. They claim the shouldn't have to pay federal grazing fees. They believe they have more rights to the land their cows run on than you and I do.

So while I agree that local input is hugely important, we need to be very careful with that thinking. You are ONLY local where you live. If the locals-know-better rule applies you could find that you have no input anywhere else. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Straight Arrow]

With respect to local input, in Montana communities, school board members. youth coaches, PTA members, Lions Club, Kiwanis Club, Rotary Club members and on and on ... are federal employees who are policy and program decision makers and implementers at all levels. They are neighbors, fellow hunters, hikers, parents, grandparents, and good ol' Montana folks ... not some foreign group from far away. The argument that all decisions and programs impacting Montana lands are made in the far off conference rooms of Washington, D. C. is a myth and misrepresentation of our federal governmental system. What further compounds that particular issue regarding local influence (or a lack thereof) is clearly evident to one who attends a hearing or reads about a policy proposal and provides input. The hearing meeting is typically sadly devoid of local officials or citizens wishing to be heard and provide their perspective.

 

[u1299]

With respect to local input, in Montana communities, school board members. youth coaches, PTA members, Lions Club, Kiwanis Club, Rotary Club members and on and on ... are federal employees who are policy and program decision makers and implementers at all levels. They are neighbors, fellow hunters, hikers, parents, grandparents, and good ol' Montana folks ... not some foreign group from far away. The argument that all decisions and programs impacting Montana lands are made in the far off conference rooms of Washington, D. C. is a myth and misrepresentation of our federal governmental system. What further compounds that particular issue regarding local influence (or a lack thereof) is clearly evident to one who attends a hearing or reads about a policy proposal and provides input. The hearing meeting is typically sadly devoid of local officials or citizens wishing to be heard and provide their perspective.

Pretty damn sad so many people keep repeating that same tired old line about all decisions being made by some faceless bureaucrat in D.C., even more sad is the amount of people who hear it and believe it as fact without expending an ounce of energy or research to see if in fact any of the statement is true. For way too many people it fits in with their pre conceived notion the Government is the enemy and the root of all evil and by God, nobody's going to convince them otherwise. Thankfully, I don't fall into that category.

 

[grizzly_]

Road Closures Have Begun On Bears Ears

...but not by the Feds. By the locals that bought land that was once state-owned until recently sold to Lyman Family Farms LLC.

Anybody think Phil Lyman is going to have another protest ride on this one?

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4784759-155/new-private-owners-block-road-to