Bears Ears and Gold Butte become National Monuments

[noharleyyet]

Texas kool-aid? Yep, that's intellectually productive discourse.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Bet this will only agitate the public land transfer folks to double down their efforts!

Not a big fan of public land transfer or new Monuments/Antiquities Act myself. For one I think that's too much power for one person to have. And second what's to keep this or any Monument from moving up the ladder to becoming a full blown National Park like they did to the Sand Dunes or Black Canyon recently here in Colorado?

Personally keeping it BLM/USFS land is my preferred land designation.

That would take an act of congress.

 

[tjones]

We don't discriminate, but it was screaming Udaho when it went thru the planer... Probably some of that stuff laying up by BHR's honey hole...

I didn't think you like the price you would get out of whatever you would make out of the small bull pine.

 

[u1299]

Good God! The libtards speak again. More off-limits land.

I won't respond to the libtard comment, no need, but I will respond to the off-limits comment. Whether creating a monument, a wilderness area, a hiking and horseback riding area, or closing a road to vehicular traffic does not mean in any way shape or form that the area is off limits. All one needs is a willingness to put forth a little effort and actually walk. There are plenty of places and countless miles of roads (too many in my opinion) where the terminally lazy, a senior citizen or a handicapped individual will never have to their vehicle. I don't think it's too much to ask provide a few areas where energetic people and wildlife can actually get a little relief from the constant barrage of vehicles.

 

[Zach]

I won't respond to the libtard comment, no need, but I will respond to the off-limits comment. Whether creating a monument, a wilderness area, a hiking and horseback riding area, or closing a road to vehicular traffic does not mean in any way shape or form that the area is off limits. All one needs is a willingness to put forth a little effort and actually walk. There are plenty of places and countless miles of roads (too many in my opinion) where the terminally lazy, a senior citizen or a handicapped individual will never have to their vehicle. I don't think it's too much to ask provide a few areas where energetic people and wildlife can actually get a little relief from the constant barrage of vehicles.

Isn't it just great how access to land has become a morality issue on what form is used...

 

[Zach]

Texas kool-aid? Yep, that's intellectually productive discourse.

Easy target and a broad brush.

 

[hank4elk]

Maybe it will put the topic front and center of the 1st hundred days,the GOP sell off/transfer platform.
Bring it to a full national eye gouging ,D&R, public debate in the house and senate.
Better than the quiet death of silent behind the curtain lobbyist assassins.
Apathy and ignorance are their tools of the trade.

My 2nd Amd. & my Pro Public Lands,"From my cold dead hands" attitude place me well on one side of that fence.
With plenty of ammo & fence pliers. Bring It!

 

[jlmatthew]

That would take an act of congress.

And Congress has acted like I mentioned when the Black Canyon & The Sand Dunes went from National Monuments to National Parks.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Isn't it just great how access to land has become a morality issue on what form is used...

When did walking become a moral issue?

It is something we teach to babies, long before we teach prejudice, hatred, and lying.

 

[Ben Lamb]

And Congress has acted like I mentioned when the Black Canyon & The Sand Dunes went from National Monuments to National Parks.

Yes. Congress has the authority to make new National Parks, Monuments, etc. They can do that with lands currently in the NLCS or lands outside of the NLCS. However, the Antiquities Act was passed because Congress refused to act and conserve historically and culturally significant sites & landscapes.

Just because something becomes a Monument, does not mean it's fast-tracked for Park status.

 

[grandejuan]

FWIW, the So. Utah folks have had real issues with the "Feds" for the last 70 years. Its not the polygamy issue, though they all have relatives that do it, most more ethical than Warren Jeffs. What I'm talking about is called the "Down Winders". Back in the late 40's when the first atomic tests were done in Nevada, clouds of fallout (radioactive) drifted over southern Utah and No. Arizona. The "Feds" told the folks that it was harmless stuff and not to worry. After years of tests, the above ground explosions ended in the 60's and life went on, until lots of family members started to come down with leukemias and lymphomas, mostly fatal. Both young kids and adults of all ages died. The "Feds", of course denied any responsibility. There was finally a bill sponsored by Sen. Hatch that did pay damages after the fact, 30+ years later, after decades of denials. I bring this up not to condone the "sagebrush rebellion" or any of the nonsence that has come out of Utah since, but to give a bit of background on their distrust of the"Feds" and their guarantees. GJ

 

[Big Fin]

FWIW, the So. Utah folks have had real issues with the "Feds" for the last 70 years. Its not the polygamy issue, though they all have relatives that do it, most more ethical than Warren Jeffs. What I'm talking about is called the "Down Winders". Back in the late 40's when the first atomic tests were done in Nevada, clouds of fallout (radioactive) drifted over southern Utah and No. Arizona. The "Feds" told the folks that it was harmless stuff and not to worry. After years of tests, the above ground explosions ended in the 60's and life went on, until lots of family members started to come down with leukemias and lymphomas, mostly fatal. Both young kids and adults of all ages died. The "Feds", of course denied any responsibility. There was finally a bill sponsored by Sen. Hatch that did pay damages after the fact, 30+ years later, after decades of denials. I bring this up not to condone the "sagebrush rebellion" or any of the nonsence that has come out of Utah since, but to give a bit of background on their distrust of the"Feds" and their guarantees. GJ

Good point of history that adds to the complication and that many may not be aware of.

 

[Elkmagnet]

FWIW, the So. Utah folks have had real issues with the "Feds" for the last 70 years. Its not the polygamy issue, though they all have relatives that do it, most more ethical than Warren Jeffs. What I'm talking about is called the "Down Winders". Back in the late 40's when the first atomic tests were done in Nevada, clouds of fallout (radioactive) drifted over southern Utah and No. Arizona. The "Feds" told the folks that it was harmless stuff and not to worry. After years of tests, the above ground explosions ended in the 60's and life went on, until lots of family members started to come down with leukemias and lymphomas, mostly fatal. Both young kids and adults of all ages died. The "Feds", of course denied any responsibility. There was finally a bill sponsored by Sen. Hatch that did pay damages after the fact, 30+ years later, after decades of denials. I bring this up not to condone the "sagebrush rebellion" or any of the nonsence that has come out of Utah since, but to give a bit of background on their distrust of the"Feds" and their guarantees. GJ

Learn something every day.

 

[marksjeep]

Here's a few more links for folks that might be looking to find information about the National Monument designations in the thread.

https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/secretaries-jewell-vilsack-applaud-presidents-designation-new-national-monuments-utah

https://www.blm.gov/programs/national-conservation-lands/national-monuments/utah/bears-ears/map

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/BE%20QA%20Fast%20Facts_0.pdf

https://www.fs.fed.us/visit/bears-ears-national-monument

https://www.fs.fed.us/sites/default/files/bear-ears-fact-sheet.pdf

 

[OriginalOscar]

Utah like many western states has a dramatic division between urban and rural opportunities. Some of you have stated this monument will create opportunity. Unfortunately that is just not true. We have world class national parks and state parks that would be national parks in most states; however a quick look at our unemployment shows the rural counties in southern Utah are dramatically higher than the majority of the state. The Grand Staircase Monument was established in 1995 and has not created tangible economic benefit.


29 year member of RMEF and one core tenant I have always respected and proudly proclaim is their multiple use approach. Resource based industries; grazing, timber, mining, oil/gas should be available for development inside established regulations.

The good people who live in southern Utah want what we all want; life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The imperial president shows disregard and contempt for rural Americans and this is another example.

 

[grizzly_]

Dukes_daddy, I get what you're saying but the county with the highest unemployment on your map is also the county with the most dependency on the very natural resources you speak of. Moab would be a ghost town right now after the uranium bust if it weren't for their migration to tourism. Chasing boom- and- bust economies is not the way to long term sustainability... especially when there's a very good chance our energy policies will be dramatically different 30 years from now than they are today.

 

[F250]

Ok, so can the public still hunt on the land, or just the Native Americans ?

 

[Keeptrying]

Ok, so can the public still hunt on the land, or just the Native Americans ?

Check out the links above your post. Lots of information there.

But to answer your question, yes you can hunt. Same with Grand Staircase.

My biggest issue with these "monuments" is that they require me to get a permit to backcountry camp.

When I get a MVUM for an area I want to visit the first thing I do is highlight the areas that are roadless. We just received the current one for the Black Hills. All those logging trails are being converted to ORV trails. Not a good thing from my standpoint. It completely ruins the experience for me to have those nasty things near me in the wild, not to mention many of their drivers have no respect for people on horseback.

I suppose wanting some areas left roadless makes me a libtard hippy to some. So be it.

 

[Rob Allen]

The people who live and work around Forks Washington want the Hoh rain forest logged to produce jobs. That would be a very bad thing.. I don't always trust the motivation of locals.

Now i am completely ignorant of this monument issue in Utah and have no interest in investigating it on my own. With that in mind answer the question what is bad about this?

 

[MTGomer]

On one hand it seems crazy that the president- any president- can unilaterally designate land like this, ( it's interesting that one branch would willingly give up this much power to the executive) on the other hand considering what's probably coming in LD.. I mean Utah politics, it seems crazy that he didn't designate a hell of a lot more.