Bears Ears and Gold Butte become National Monuments

elkantlers said:
I guess if you like designated camp spots with little metal fire rings and a concrete shitter 30' away it will be a good thing.
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When we were in Valley of the Gods last year, all camping was on unimproved areas, but there were no fires allowed. Didn't stop many of the people camping there from having fires, nor did a WSA sign clearly saying "No Motorized Travel Beyond This Point" stop some jackwagon from taking his jeep up an arroyo.

YOu can camp outside of designated campsites in the Missouri Rive Breaks and many other monuments. Just because it's designated, doesn't mean it gets developed like a National Park.
 
Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria. There is absolutely no basis to believe hunting will in any way be affected by Monument status. In fact, it has been expressly stated hunting would be protected and allowed and the State would continue to manage wildlife.

I have hiked in Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument for about 20 years and have hunted in/around Bears Ears many times in recent past, so I know the areas. For reference, there is no discernible difference in hunting the Kaiparowits units (within GSENM) for Desert Bighorn than any other units. And if you walk into the Ranger Station in Escalante and ask where to camp, they'll tell you to find a spot off Hole-In-The-Rock road and camp wherever you want (also within GSENM). You would have no idea it was even a National Monument unless you looked at the map.

If it wasn't for the GSENM designation, its entirely plausible that there would be major drilling or coal mining started in the area that had scarred the landscape but was now defunct due to changing global economics and federal controls on the coal industry that are completely unrelated to a Monument status. Thank goodness the area wasn't ruined forever by a few short-sighted individuals who were trying to get rich off the backs of the rest of us, leaving ghost towns in their wake, and destroying a beautiful landscape and public land for the rest of Americans; both today and for generations to come.
 
Coal mining has been advanced several times for the Kaiparowits plateau. And it has fallen on its face economically each time. I'm glad that the monument stopped it. Unfortunately southern utah has lots of folks who would skin the land for a few bucks. As for hunting, there is a terrible poaching problem all over southern utah thats tough to police since everyone living there is someone's cousin, including the "wildlife managers". G J
 
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tjones said:
Why does it always sink to name calling?
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Good question.

My comments below applies to frustrated debaters from both ends of the spectrum.

My personal observation is that for those who cannot provide a coherent argument for their position, the default is to hang tags/labels on people who have a better argument. Personally, I read such action as prima facie evidence that the person calling names or hanging tags/labels is admitting they have no reasonable basis for their claims and they are surrendering any grounds for intelligent discourse on the topic at hand.
 
grandejuan said:
Coal mining has been advanced several times for the Kaiparowits plateau. And it has fallen on its face economically each time. I'm glad that the monument stopped it. Unfortunately southern utah has lots of folks who would skin the land for a few bucks. As for hunting, there is a terrible poaching problem all over southern utah thats tough to police since everyone living there is someone's cousin, including the "wildlife managers". G J
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Doesn't help that Utah has the lowest paid game wardens in the country. https://www.recruiter.com/salaries/fish-and-game-wardens-salary/
 
JoseCuervo said:
That land is not off limits. Get off the bar stool, go buy some boots, and enjoy it. You can go out there and spend the next 365 days on it, if you desire.
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Please don't attempt to derail hysteria with facts.
 
Big Fin said:
Good question.

My comments below applies to frustrated debaters from both ends of the spectrum.

My personal observation is that for those who cannot provide a coherent argument for their position, the default is to hang tags/labels on people who have a better argument. Personally, I read such action as prima facie evidence that the person calling names or hanging tags/labels is admitting they have no reasonable basis for their claims and they are surrendering any grounds for intelligent discourse on the topic at hand.
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Oh yeah? Well you clearly demonstrate that you are a hunting show host/website owner who doesn't have a large repertoire of insulting names and must rely on logic and reason to convince people you are right. "pathetic" :) take that you white, Finnish, muskrat trapper.


Most of us figured in kindergarten that calling other people poopy-head or other such derivatives is only effective if you mingle with like minded individuals. It doesn't work well to convince others you are right.

Glad to see that hunting is written into the management plan of the monuments.
 
I have seen in several places, statements made that say the Gold Butte designation is where Bundy's primerib on-the-hoof have been foraging illegally.

Anybody know if there's any truth to that?
 
There are good people that are liberals and there are good people that are conservatives.

You can never have a productive conversation with someone if you label them as a libtard or a cuckservative.

You can at least have a conversation if you can research and articulate your opinion.

With your case if you gave examples of 'more off land limits' and how this could be a genuine fear of the designation.

I feel like too many people on the GOP side of things have drank the Texas or Team Republican Kool-aid. Anything federal bad - Anything state good.

Personally, I just want good ideas and I do not care if it is coming from the mouth of a republican or a democrat.

If team republican has a good idea, then team democrat should put the shoe on the other foot to see if they agree and vise versa.
 
Bet this will only agitate the public land transfer folks to double down their efforts!

Not a big fan of public land transfer or new Monuments/Antiquities Act myself. For one I think that's too much power for one person to have. And second what's to keep this or any Monument from moving up the ladder to becoming a full blown National Park like they did to the Sand Dunes or Black Canyon recently here in Colorado?

Personally keeping it BLM/USFS land is my preferred land designation.
 
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