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The Monuments Men

Ben Lamb said:
These are not coastal elites telling you what to do,
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Follow the money, the deal making and the political partnering and the story is a little more complicated than you suggest. These are not simple hikers, Main Street businesses, hunters and farmers. These (both sides) have large well funded worldviews that goes much further than which federal lands get motorized access, etc. if you are the "little guy" or local user don't kid yourself into thinking either side really gives a damn about you or your opinions.
 
VikingsGuy said:
Follow the money, the deal making and the political partnering and the story is a little more complicated than you suggest. These are not simple hikers, Main Street businesses, hunters and farmers. These (both sides) have large well funded worldviews that goes much further than which federal lands get motorized access, etc. if you are the "little guy" or local user don't kid yourself into thinking either side really gives a damn about you or your opinions.
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Having worked with a vast number of organizations over the last 15 years, I respectfully disagree.
 
VikingsGuy said:
Follow the money, the deal making and the political partnering and the story is a little more complicated than you suggest. These are not simple hikers, Main Street businesses, hunters and farmers. These (both sides) have large well funded worldviews that goes much further than which federal lands get motorized access, etc. if you are the "little guy" or local user don't kid yourself into thinking either side really gives a damn about you or your opinions.
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Sorry, but I just can't and don't agree with this blanket statement. This is just perpetuating a stereotypical dogma in regards to conservation minded groups.
 
VikingsGuy said:
But would it sound more reasonable if you said, <4% of Obama's recent additions and ~2.5% of the total? We now have upwards of 800,000,000 acres under this program with 95% of that being added by the last two presidents -- maybe if the program is going to grow at that type of rate congress and the public should take a closer look.

I am pro-wilderness, pro-public access, pro-hunting/fishing, but I am very skeptical of the big east/left coast special interest groups that "are here to help us", and I believe all issues need balance over idealism.
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This makes me question if you know what the hell you are even talking about......
 
onpoint said:
This makes me question if you know what the hell you are even talking about......
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Because of course true believers don't allow any differences of opinion or approach. One is either unquestionably with you, a fool or evil. The only three options in our current political discourse.

I choose to disagree, there are many ways to balance different approaches and needs that don't require blind fealty to special interest groups. One can support public lands without freaking out about a 2.5% adjustment in the overall allotment. One can care about hunting but still realize the locals have to make a living.
 
VikingsGuy said:
Because of course true believers don't allow any differences of opinion or approach. One is either unquestionably with you, a fool or evil. The only three options in our current political discourse.

I choose to disagree, there are many ways to balance different approaches and needs that don't require blind fealty to special interest groups. One can support public lands without freaking out about a 2.5% adjustment in the overall allotment. One can care about hunting but still realize the locals have to make a living.
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The trouble is, when all is said and done, there's a lot more said than done by about 99.999% of the public and hunters on these issues.

Your opinion doesn't mean squat unless its heard.
 
Ben Lamb said:
Well that's a stick to the eye: https://medium.com/westwise/senator...monuments-report-to-donald-trump-9c462ac1251b
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Senator Heinrich said:
And I certainly hope that before the president acts on any of these recommendations that the secretary makes sure that he can get his facts straight.
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Oh snap. But hey guys, Zinke has done a ton for hunting/fishing and conservation. Look at this monumental achievement:

https://twitter.com/SecretaryZinke/status/910189520036990979
 
VikingsGuy said:
Because of course true believers don't allow any differences of opinion or approach. One is either unquestionably with you, a fool or evil. The only three options in our current political discourse.

I choose to disagree, there are many ways to balance different approaches and needs that don't require blind fealty to special interest groups. One can support public lands without freaking out about a 2.5% adjustment in the overall allotment. One can care about hunting but still realize the locals have to make a living.
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Well said.
 
Personally, I thought this was one of our more well rounded discussions, largely without name calling or tin foil.

Some shots here & there, but nobody got their cat grabbed with the locker room talk.
 
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