AR 15 and 10 type rifles

[TheGrayRider]

Please don’t ever believe that our 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution can’t be nullified. Please study the 18th Amendment and the 21st Amendment, as examples of nonpermanence.

Also, a law passed by the legislative branch (Congress), executed by the executive branch (President), and affirmed by the judicial branch (US Supreme Court) is not the permanent law of the land. A subsequent constitutional amendment can overrule any law and process as the Constitution and its amendments is the highest law.

Would America face anarchy if the 1st and 2nd Amendment were voided and obliterated? I don’t know, and I don’t want to find out.

 

[Addicting]

A forced buy back would likely come with every Clive Bundy going down in a hail of lead and fire.

Don’t think that wouldn’t devide the country even more than what it already is.

 

[RockinU]

A forced buy back would likely come with every Clive Bundy going down in a hail of lead and fire.

Don’t think that wouldn’t devide the country even more than what it already is.

The scary thing is that there are fringe elements on each side that want exactly that. Which is why it's incumbent on us to remain level headed and rational in this discussion. The "cold, dead, hands" crowd feed the exact narrative we don't want. The answer lies in education and rational discussion, 2 things that are difficult in today's political climate, but worthwhile things shouldn't be abandoned due to difficulty.

 

[Addicting]

A very large part of me wants to hit the reset button on our entire government. Thus getting it back to a Government where we the people are actually the Senate and Congress’s bosses. Where we set their term limits, pay check, and retirement.

However, at this point I feel we have lost control over that process. The media, big special interest, and greed have taken it over. This is eventually going to come to a crisis, for a crisis to happen it needs a catalyst. I fear that these shootings and attacks on constitutional rights are going to be that catalyst. I read thru these threads and worry about my kids futures. They want to follow in tradition and serve their country. What will this country be like? Who will they be serving, the people or the Government.

 

[Gr8bawana]

The problem is you don't know how many defensive shootings have prevented mass shootings because the shooter was stopped.

Anyway, I could as easily offer that arming more people through something like constitutional carry would prevent even more mass murders. We need fewer gun restrictions to prevent these tragedies rather than more.

Also there are plenty of examples of murderers being stopped because their actions prior to them committing crimes gave away their intentions allowing law enforcement to act. Even without "red flag laws" that will eventually allow for the confiscation of your guns.

Also I had to cut the list as there was too much text to paste.

Gut Shot why do you not include some of these figures as well?

Alexis Bukrym reflects on the night she shot her roommate, Anthony Schwartz, after mistaking him for an intruder.

Since 2015, at least 47 people have shot friends, loved ones, roommates, or emergency responders they said they’d mistaken for home intruders, killing 15, according to an analysis of US gun violence incidents by BuzzFeed News and the Trace. In at least 27 of those cases, criminal charges were dismissed or never filed because authorities deemed the shootings accidental, an act of self-defense in a moment of panic.
For years, gun rights advocates have promoted the use of firearms by arguing that “to stop a bad guy with a gun, it takes a good guy with a gun,” a refrain National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre repeated in a speech in late February. Pro-gun media outlets, such as Bearing Arms, which has around two million followers on its Facebook page, and Active Self Protection, which has more than three-quarters of a million subscribers on its YouTube channel, highlight cases of armed civilians warding off attackers. In the days following the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida that left 17 dead and 14 wounded, President Donald Trump and others called on school districts to arm teachers for the safety of their students, an idea originally proposed by the NRA in 2012 after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. “When a sick individual comes into that school, they can expect major trouble,” Trump said of the proposal during a White House press briefing. “The bullets are going to be going toward him, also.” In March, Florida passed a law allowing some teachers to carry guns in the classroom.
But good guys with guns don’t only shoot bad guys with guns. In the sudden, blurry, urgent split seconds when a threat bursts into view, the impulse to pull the trigger can overwhelm the need to accurately identify the target, leading to snap decisions that bring permanent tragedies.
As Schwartz, 21, lay on the floor, bleeding but conscious, Bukrym hoped her friend could be saved. She was crying when she called 911, explaining what happened between short, choppy breaths. She ripped a strip from her shirt and tied it around his wound. She wrapped a blanket around him. When he began nodding into unconsciousness, she slapped his face to keep him awake. She talked to him, telling him he was going to make it and everything was going to be OK, but beating against the inside of her head was the thought that she had just fired the bullet that killed him.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Worth a 5 minute read. Not saying I agree, but is food for thought. http://strib.mn/2Km2OpA

 

[Europe]

The scary thing is that there are fringe elements on each side that want exactly that. Which is why it's incumbent on us to remain level headed and rational in this discussion. The "cold, dead, hands" crowd feed the exact narrative we don't want. The answer lies in education and rational discussion, 2 things that are difficult in today's political climate, but worthwhile things shouldn't be abandoned due to difficulty.

Amen ! many, MANY excellent posts on this thread and again I thank you for them, but this one is so true.

I would also like to say that I have traveled the world extensively and have met some wonderful people and have seen some beautiful country, but to me there is no place like America. . Do I agree with everything we do, of course not but I love her, warts and all. Do you notice that some celebrity's always threaten to leave the country if someone they dont like is elected------but they dont.

God bless America

I will be back home soon, but not now as Dirtclod keeps me up to date on things in Arizona and right now it is HOT !

 

[Gut Shot]

Gut Shot why do you not include some of these figures as well?

Alexis Bukrym reflects on the night she shot her roommate, Anthony Schwartz, after mistaking him for an intruder.

Since 2015, at least 47 people have shot friends, loved ones, roommates, or emergency responders they said they’d mistaken for home intruders, killing 15, according to an analysis of US gun violence incidents by BuzzFeed News and the Trace. In at least 27 of those cases, criminal charges were dismissed or never filed because authorities deemed the shootings accidental, an act of self-defense in a moment of panic.
For years, gun rights advocates have promoted the use of firearms by arguing that “to stop a bad guy with a gun, it takes a good guy with a gun,” a refrain National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre repeated in a speech in late February. Pro-gun media outlets, such as Bearing Arms, which has around two million followers on its Facebook page, and Active Self Protection, which has more than three-quarters of a million subscribers on its YouTube channel, highlight cases of armed civilians warding off attackers. In the days following the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida that left 17 dead and 14 wounded, President Donald Trump and others called on school districts to arm teachers for the safety of their students, an idea originally proposed by the NRA in 2012 after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. “When a sick individual comes into that school, they can expect major trouble,” Trump said of the proposal during a White House press briefing. “The bullets are going to be going toward him, also.” In March, Florida passed a law allowing some teachers to carry guns in the classroom.
But good guys with guns don’t only shoot bad guys with guns. In the sudden, blurry, urgent split seconds when a threat bursts into view, the impulse to pull the trigger can overwhelm the need to accurately identify the target, leading to snap decisions that bring permanent tragedies.
As Schwartz, 21, lay on the floor, bleeding but conscious, Bukrym hoped her friend could be saved. She was crying when she called 911, explaining what happened between short, choppy breaths. She ripped a strip from her shirt and tied it around his wound. She wrapped a blanket around him. When he began nodding into unconsciousness, she slapped his face to keep him awake. She talked to him, telling him he was going to make it and everything was going to be OK, but beating against the inside of her head was the thought that she had just fired the bullet that killed him.

Well shoot, if we are going to include accidental shootings why not include car accidents, medical mistakes, and equipment failures that lead to deaths? After all, many more people are killed by these things than by people with guns. Lets ban cars and close hospitals...if it saves just one life...

Freedom is scary and it isn't for everyone.

 

[Gut Shot]

Here it is folks, mass stabbing. Lets talk about "knife violence". I don't think anyone needs a knife with a blade over 4" long. Time to license butchers and chefs.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/southern...-4-injures-2-in-series-of-stabbings-robberies

 

[dirtclod Az.]

Amen ! many, MANY excellent posts on this thread and again I thank you for them, but this one is so true.

I would also like to say that I have traveled the world extensively and have met some wonderful people and have seen some beautiful country, but to me there is no place like America. . Do I agree with everything we do, of course not but I love her, warts and all. Do you notice that some celebrity's always threaten to leave the country if someone they dont like is elected------but they dont.

God bless America

I will be back home soon, but not now as Dirtclod keeps me up to date on things in Arizona and right now it is HOT !

I'm here for you.Good luck to your Daughter! Have a great trip...Cooled down to 106f. for the rest of the week.DC.

 

[Panda Bear]

If we are now talking about knives, you need to check out our new knife restrictions before driving across the border into Canada. You might be breaking the law by carrying a knife you have carried for years .

 

[Panda Bear]

Before I head back out to work

The people in California ( Hollywood ) want all firearms banned, all hunting banned.

but they think it is o.k. to make a movie called "The Hunt" where rich individuals use firearms and pay to hunt "Deplorable's", which I think was a word attached to those who supported President Trump.

This seems so wrong on so many levels, but I am an outsider, so was curious how it is viewed by you fellows

 

[FLS]

Fact: The number of mass shootings is misleading. One group of criminals murdering another group of criminals IS NOT the same as some nut shooting up the local Walmart. Those statistics are being used to push an agenda.
Fact: AR 15 style rifles have been available to the civilian market since th 60s. Their use in homocides is statically insignificant.
Until we quit looking at the tool and start trying to find the cause, the mass killings will continue. The Columbine murderers didn’t use ARs. Adam Lanza walked into an elementary school and murdered little kids. Until we can figure out why, the method doesn’t matter.
I think it’s combination of a lot of things, none of which will be simple to fix. Banning semi auto firearms is simplistic and knee jerk and fits a left leaning agenda. Figuring out how and why an individual becomes a homicidal maniac and how to keep them away from all firearms should be our focus.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Fact: The number of mass shootings is misleading. One group of criminals murdering another group of criminals IS NOT the same as some nut shooting up the local Walmart. Those statistics are being used to push an agenda.
Fact: AR 15 style rifles have been available to the civilian market since th 60s. Their use in homocides is statically insignificant.
Until we quit looking at the tool and start trying to find the cause, the mass killings will continue. The Columbine murderers didn’t use ARs. Adam Lanza walked into an elementary school and murdered little kids. Until we can figure out why, the method doesn’t matter.
I think it’s combination of a lot of things, none of which will be simple to fix. Banning semi auto firearms is simplistic and knee jerk and fits a left leaning agenda. Figuring out how and why an individual becomes a homicidal maniac and how to keep them away from all firearms should be our focus.

I concur, but one more fact - uninformed voters out vote informed voters so savvy advocates sometimes pick their battles and make strategic concessions. UBC and annding AR to NFA might be the price of gaining credibility with the 70% of voters who don’t own a gun and the 20% that one only one or two.

 

[jake23]

Before I head back out to work

The people in California ( Hollywood ) want all firearms banned, all hunting banned.

but they think it is o.k. to make a movie called "The Hunt" where rich individuals use firearms and pay to hunt "Deplorable's", which I think was a word attached to those who supported President Trump.

This seems so wrong on so many levels, but I am an outsider, so was curious how it is viewed by you fellows

I live in CA. You could probably call it southern CA. I stopped watching stupid Hollywood movies long ago. That whole industry caters to whack jobs who make a living at being out of touch with reality. Then they celebrate their willful ignorance seeking validation on social media. Life is better if you just don’t watch and support that garbage.

 

[RockinU]

I concur, but one more fact - uninformed voters out vote informed voters so savvy advocates sometimes pick their battles and make strategic concessions. UBC and annding AR to NFA might be the price of gaining credibility with the 70% of voters who don’t own a gun and the 20% that one only one or two.

I can't see a rational argument for sending one type of semi-automatic rifle to NFA, but not others, but maybe you can make one.

As for UBC, I see this kicked around a lot, and in concept I have no problem with it, but the problem with UBC is that it's unenforceable without a federal gun registry, which is prohibited by the FOPA...so it's just another feel good/do nothing measure.

As for making concessions, when we make concessions that don't work, do you think they will just shrug their shoulders, say "oh well" and not ask for more?

 

[VikingsGuy]

I can't see a rational argument for sending one type of semi-automatic rifle to NFA, but not others, but maybe you can make one.

As for UBC, I see this kicked around a lot, and in concept I have no problem with it, but the problem with UBC is that it's unenforceable without a federal gun registry, which is prohibited by the FOPA...so it's just another feel good/do nothing measure.

As for making concessions, when we make concessions that don't work, do you think they will just shrug their shoulders, say "oh well" and not ask for more?

Why ARs and not Sig pistols? Because ARs are scary black guns that soccer Mom’s don’t understand.

I don’t think any of these will work to stop crazies, my point is to find sufficient concessions that Midwest suburban voters don’t feel bad about voting republican over this issue. It not about stopping anti-gun folks from wanting more, it’s about keeping 51 seats in the senate so the country doesn’t end up like California.

 

[RockinU]

Why ARs and not Sig pistols? Because ARs are scary black guns that soccer Mom’s do t understand.

I don’t think any of these will work to stop crazies, my point is to find sufficient concessions that Midwest suburban voters don’t feel bad about voting republican over this issue. It not about stopping anti-gun folks from wanting more, it’s about keeping 51 seats in the senate so the country doesn’t end up like California.

I understand that the big picture means some kind of "hearts and minds" approach, I'm just not sure that making 15-20 million rifles that are already out there a NFA item because soccer mom's don't understand is a reasonable concession to make.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

I'm going to go a little bit against the grain here, so bear with me everyone...

What if instead of restricting gun buying and ownership (which I think we can all agree is a very hot button topic... Haha) we work on a different kind of model.

I'm just brainstorming here, so keep that in mind. What if we start restricting ammunition. And I don't mean in the traditional sense, like hey you can't buy x number of bullets. What if it looks more like: If you want to buy this ammo you have to take a yearly gun safety course and pass a mental evaluation?


What if we start treating it like your drivers license, you have to keep it up to date if you want to shoot and poses ammunition. Get caught without it up to date while hunting and you get a ticket, or something to that affect.

I don't think many people here would disagree that having to pass a drivers exam is an overburden to be able to drive a vehicle, so why would doing the same for ammo be that bad?

 

[Pelican]

I'm going to go a little bit against the grain here, so bear with me everyone...

What if instead of restricting gun buying and ownership (which I think we can all agree is a very hot button topic... Haha) we work on a different kind of model.

I'm just brainstorming here, so keep that in mind. What if we start restricting ammunition. And I don't mean in the traditional sense, like hey you can't buy x number of bullets. What if it looks more like: If you want to buy this ammo you have to take a yearly gun safety course and pass a mental evaluation?


What if we start treating it like your drivers license, you have to keep it up to date if you want to shoot and poses ammunition. Get caught without it up to date while hunting and you get a ticket, or something to that affect.

I don't think many people here would disagree that having to pass a drivers exam is an overburden to be able to drive a vehicle, so why would doing the same for ammo be that bad?

Does requiring a drivers license eliminate bad driving - Nope.

The issue is a small percentage of people make a choice commit crime.