AR 15 and 10 type rifles

[jake23]

Should they be allowed to defend themselves, I guess yes?

I’ve just talked to a ton of educators and they don’t want guns in their school, they don’t want to be in the position to kill a student, and they are uncomfortable or scared of guns.

Also just in terms of student safety like where would you keep the gun, I’m sure most teacher would exercise safety keep it in a locked drawer or on their person, but kids get into everything. Your talking about a room full of 30 10 year olds it’s just not a great idea. It’s just introducing a unnecessary variable into a tough environment.

Thanks for clarifying.

The reaction you stated your friends and family have had about guns being in the classroom are a perfect example of what someone who has no experience with firearms would say. Obviously those individuals would probably not be a good fit for carrying a concealed weapon.

School resource officers are carrying a loaded pistol on their person when they are on campus. Do these same individuals have the same concerns towards the officers having guns on campus? Why or why not?

 

[RockinU]

Is it the teacher's responsibility to engage in an active shooter situation? Should a teacher be expected to take a bullet for a student? As a teacher, I struggle with these questions.

I can't think one should be expected to, but some have, it's a tragic choice that I hope no teacher has to make again, but in my heart I know they will.

I put a lot of thought into this when I made the decision to start carrying, and I concluded that my #1 job is to protect my family, and that my #2 job is to be there for my family, so my carry weapon will be used to that purpose...it's not my job to be a hero. Having said that, I'm not a teacher, and I can't imagine having to make a decision like that knowing that children's lives were in danger. It would be a nightmare scenario for anyone to face.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Thanks for clarifying.

The reaction you stated your friends and family have had about guns being in the classroom are a perfect example of what someone who has no experience with firearms would say. Obviously those individuals would probably not be a good fit for carrying a concealed weapon.

School resource officers are carrying a loaded pistol on their person when they are on campus. Do these same individuals have the same concerns towards the officers having guns on campus? Why or why not?

Yeah exactly and that's my point the vast majority of educators are not a good fit. They don't mind officers, because they trust police officers. I think they would argue that at the same time police officers aren't teachers, when your local LEO comes into the classroom to talk to the students they command a certain amount of respect and maybe some fear, which teachers do not and to be effective should not. Students should be afraid of a teacher because that teacher has a gun. (This is basically the convo I had with my mom and her opinion)

 

[jake23]

And that's completely understandable. While I myself have one that I coyote hunt with, it's not all I coyote hunt with, and not even my favorite, but that has absolutely nothing to do with restricting ownership of them. As I said earlier, what happens when some psycho takes a position on high ground with a scoped rifle and does his worst, and the antis decide that nobody "needs" the ability to shoot distance with a high powered rifle? What happens when they realize that the evil AR-15 rifle boogieman is actually one of the least powerful rifles we have? To think they only have interest in the ones you don't is a mistake.

The thing that scares me is when/if “these people who want to ban AR-15s” realize that pretty much any other rifle will cause devastating wounds that make the 5.56 round seem like a pellet gun. What would happen then?


There are a lot of people who only shoot AR platform rifles. They could probably care less if bolt action magnums were banned.

There are a lot of people who only shoot bolt action hunting rifles. They could probably care less if AR rifles were banned.

Either we all stand together or we will surely all fall separately.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It would be a nightmare scenario for anyone to face.

A big thing for some teacher friends of mine was the fact that they would know the shooter, this isn't some scary terrorist in a mask, it's your student who you have been working with for months possibly years who has a terrible home life that you emphasis with... they don't want to have to make the call on shooting that kid.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The thing that scares me is when/if “these people who want to ban AR-15s” realize that pretty much any other rifle will cause devastating wounds that make the 5.56 round seem like a pellet gun. What would happen then?

There are a lot of people who only shoot AR platform rifles. They could probably care less if bolt action magnums were banned.

There are a lot of people who only shoot bolt action hunting rifles. They could probably care less if AR rifles were banned.

Either we all stand together or we will surely all fall separately.

I'm not convinced that is true, the most restrictive counties, with regard to firearm laws I can think of, are Japan, Indonesia, and China. All allow the use of bolt action rifles for hunting, albeit you have to jump through lots of hoops.

The slippery slope argument, in my mind, about "assault weapons" just doesn't carry water because to date it's never happened anywhere.

That's not to say I support an assault weapon ban, I'm very much on the fence.

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It seems like the vast majority of these incidents are perpetuated by guys 15-25, do you think raising the purchasing age to say 28-30 would have any effect?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

What is an "assault rifle"? I need to know which ones are classified as such, and which ones aren't. It's a description coined by the fricken media to describe any weapon used in what they deem a "mass" shooting. Gun people don't use the term "assault rifle". Done before I get in trouble. mtmuley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

 

[RockinU]

I don't like the concept of instilling fear into students, but I wonder if students knowing the possibility of armed teachers would work as a deterrent.

I don't think most on this board have a complete understanding of what some schools look like today. My wife used to teach in a public school that had a very high percentage of free meal students (a measure of the economics of the area), in the district that was sued for having a disproportionate percentage on minority students in alternative discipline programs (basically by some's measure they had too many minority students separated from the main body of students for discipline reasons). That lawsuit led directly to some of the policies which many think played a role in how the Parkland shooter was handled in the time leading up to that tragic event.

The reason my wife no longer teaches in that district is that a minority student, in the middle of class, got in her face and threatened to visit physical violence on her. The administration fought doing anything about it tooth and nail. We had to force them to remove the child from her class, we had to go around them to file a report so that there was a paper trail documenting the event, and eventually had to make the difficult decision for my wife to move on to another school. The schools are so afraid of being sued, and of identity politics that they are paralyzed to act. And the bad kids know it...that's the environment in which a lot of our teachers are working now.

 

[RockinU]

A big thing for some teacher friends of mine was the fact that they would know the shooter, this isn't some scary terrorist in a mask, it's your student who you have been working with for months possibly years who has a terrible home life that you emphasis with... they don't want to have to make the call on shooting that kid.

Obviously nobody would want to make that call, but I'm guessing that there are others who would see that kid about to take the life of another student, maybe one who is kind and bright, and someone's whole world, and wish that they could do something to stop it.

 

[JM77]

Why is it that when arming teachers comes up the assumption is made that all teachers will be forced to conceal carry or have "a gun in the drawer"?

Wyoming allows local school districts to make the decision on this. No teacher has to be forced to have a weapon, but some may choose to do so. They should be required to have training and the weapon could be secured in an individual lock box, only that teacher could open. Again, the teacher's choice, training required, the gun secured.

 

[Addicting]

In the discussion of wether teachers should carry or their responsibility to defend, none of that really matters for the strategy. If the community /Student body knew that it is possible their teacher could be a CONCEALED carry person they would think differently about the school as a soft target.

It doesn’t matter if 100% of the faculty doesn’t carry. The perception that they have received training and may be carrying is a deterrent enough.

The students should never know who is or isn’t carrying.

As long as the schools districts have a policy on no guns, the school systems will forever be a soft target that gets targeted.

 

[jake23]

I'm not convinced that is true, the most restrictive counties, with regard to firearm laws I can think of, are Japan, Indonesia, and China. All allow the use of bolt action rifles for hunting, albeit you have to jump through lots of hoops.

The slippery slope argument, in my mind, about "assault weapons" just doesn't carry water because to date it's never happened anywhere.

That's not to say I support an assault weapon ban, I'm very much on the fence.

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It seems like the vast majority of these incidents are perpetuated by guys 15-25, do you think raising the purchasing age to say 28-30 would have any effect?

No I don’t think raising the age to buy firearms will have any effect.

Murder is already illegal, and punishable by death in a lot of areas. If that doesn’t deter some mad man from carrying out these heinous acts, a misdemeanor or felony purchase/possession of a firearm surely won't either.

The slippery slope argument that you keep saying is weak and doesn’t carry any water, is in fact alive and well in the great state of California. I would encourage anyone who thinks that laws can solve this issue, to please come visit this fine state and see with your own eyes what laws we have and how effective they are at curbing this problem.

Many of the laws that I hear people advocating for are already in effect here in California and have been for quite some time. One of the latest mass shootings happened just a couple hours from where I live. So these laws are not effective!!

Typically we have anywhere from 10 to 20 new firearms laws passed in California every year!!! Let that sink in for a minute........

The only people that follow these laws are people like you and me and the rest of us on this board.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

No I don’t think raising the age to buy firearms will have any effect.

Murder is already illegal, and punishable by death in a lot of areas. If that doesn’t deter some mad man from carrying out these heinous acts, a misdemeanor or felony purchase/possession of a firearm surely won't either.

The slippery slope argument that you keep saying is weak and doesn’t carry any water, is in fact alive and well in the great state of California. I would encourage anyone who thinks that laws can solve this issue, to please come visit this fine state and see with your own eyes what laws we have and how effective they are at curbing this problem.

Many of the laws that I hear people advocating for are already in effect here in California and have been for quite some time. One of the latest mass shootings happened just a couple hours from where I live. So these laws are not effective!!

Typically we have anywhere from 10 to 20 new firearms laws passed in California every year!!! Let that sink in for a minute........

The only people that follow these laws are people like you and me and the rest of us on this board.

California is exactly the reason that while I'm sensitive to the points made in by the legislate crowd guns crowd, I'm extremely resistance to new laws being passed.

I do think people on our side of the aisle need to be critical of some of the arguments our side uses, a number of them are bs and if you use arguments that are easily discredited it's impossible for you to articulate a good reason for gun ownership.

 

[jake23]

California is exactly the reason that while I'm sensitive to the points made in by the legislate crowd guns crowd, I'm extremely resistance to new laws being passed.

I do think people on our side of the aisle need to be critical of some of the arguments our side uses, a number of them are bs and if you use arguments that are easily discredited it's impossible for you to articulate a good reason for gun ownership.

That sensitivity and awareness of what it can be like if your state or the country became California are very wise to have!

I was born and raised here in California. Moved out of state when I joined the navy in 1999. Came back when I got out in 2007. This place has changed in the last 20 to 30 years. And not for the better!! I feel it is my duty as a prisoner of this state to inform all of the currently free Americans to safeguard their rights to the best of their ability and to not compromise at all. Death by a thousand cuts is what killed California, and it is likely coming to a state near you sometime soon!

 

[Europe]

some very interesting comments AND information. Several have provided information and commentary ---thank you ! Very good AND informative discussion.

I did think of something that I dont always think about but sometimes comment about "why doesn't congress do this or that, whatever I am discussing at that time"

There are 435 Representatives in the House. Each sent there to represent a particular section of America. Each ( hopefully ) trying to speak for the people--they represent in their district, the ones who put them in office. Of course any bill they pass, has to be passed by another 100 Senators and then signed by a President. Later on the Bill in question may need to withstand a decision by the Supreme Court.

Schools. No way in todays society could you convince me to teach school. My hats off to you "teachers" who are doing your best to teach our children, while "dancing" with the school administrators, parents, politicians, Second guessers---and should you be armed, or not.

The post that mentioned driving to school with a gun in your truck. I remember those days. I also remember "respecting" your teacher, or you would be in trouble when you got home.

But I degrees and readily admit I do not have the answer to todays violence----breakdown in the home, lack of Christian values, video games/movies/music ( I heard a song once, a rap song that was talking about raping and glorifying it,,WHY ??? ). Disprepect for law enforcement. What is up with people walking up and pouring water on a police officer when they are making an arrest. But if the person pouring the water is in trouble they will yell "call the police"

Does it seem I deviated from the original topic Maybe ?

Gentlemen, thanks again

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I feel it is my duty as a prisoner of this state...

That's a great line sir.

 

[LWC55]

Why would the left want to ban assault rifles when over 80% of gun deaths are caused by handguns? Wouldn't the logical thing be banning handguns if you really wanted to stop gun related deaths? Puzzling..

 

[rwc101]

Why would the left want to ban assault rifles when over 80% of gun deaths are caused by handguns? Wouldn't the logical thing be banning handguns if you really wanted to stop gun related deaths? Puzzling..

Because the moderate ones see handguns as having legitimate civilian uses (concealed carry, home defense) despite their role in crime and role in suicide. They don't see assault rifles/MSR as having legitimate uses in the civilian realm.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Why would the left want to ban assault rifles when over 80% of gun deaths are caused by handguns? Wouldn't the logical thing be banning handguns if you really wanted to stop gun related deaths? Puzzling..

Penny wise, pound foolish applies to so many things.

 

[LWC55]

Interesting view on AR's. Biden says his administration would come for your AR's. Then he backtracks some. But it is worth a few minutes watch