And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[Badger_55]

Lets really look at that "short end of the stick" you and a lot of others are claiming you're going to get.

NR's will STILL receive 7,250 full price elk tags in the initial draw. Total "lose" of full price elk tags in the initial draw...ZERO

NR's will STILL receive 100% of the allocation of NR deer licenses for every region wide tag in the State of Wyoming, including regions G and H where the absolute best deer hunting in the state exists. "loss" of absolutely not a single region wide deer tag. Yeah, NR's will lose 10% of limited quota deer licenses, that a vast majority are not even as good of hunting as G and H.

NR's will still receive over 50% of the pronghorn tags in Wyoming that they currently get. Sure, it may take a few more years to draw the best areas that will "lose" 10% of the tags. But, residents like me that apply for 3 choices, always get a tag somewhere. That will free up a tag in a mid-tier unit for a NR that I would normally draw in a mid-tier unit. I feel that living in Wyoming, suffering through the chit winters, attending meetings, advocating for wildlife and watching pronghorn huddled up beside a snow-fence "getting out" of 65 MPH winds in the dead of winter sort of entitles me to more opportunity at the best tags here. So, no "loss" of opportunity, NR's already get over 50% of the pronghorn tags...why the bitching about being limited to 10% in the initial draw?

Sheep, moose, goat, and bison...yep, NR's are going to lose a small handful of tags for those species. Well, tough...I'm limited to 10% or LESS of those tags in every single state I apply for outside of Wyoming as a NR. Further, in 1978 Wyoming was issuing 500 NR moose permits and 1,500 to residents...that's more than they issue total to NR and R combined NOW. Meaning Resident opportunity at moose licenses has cratered by 1,200+ tags per year. Sheep tags going to Residents has declined by over 150 licenses since 1978. Tell me in any way, shape or form, why when Residents have suffered a loss of 1,200 moose permits and over 150 sheep permits, you feel that Residents shouldn't be currently getting 90% of the available tags for those species? Goat and Bison should also be 90-10 split as well....we don't have many of either and 90/10 would be no different than what other States issue to NR's. Plus, the argument of "creating public land advocates" does not apply to MSGB tags...those are specialty tags and you don't create or introduce new hunters to the sport with those species.

So, what it all boils down to is a small number of sheep, moose, goat and bison tags...6% less limited quota elk tags, and a handful of LQ deer tags in areas not as good as the deer hunting in G and H, and 10% of the better pronghorn areas (but NR's still getting over 50% of the total pronghorn tags).

Just to make sure I cover the whole thing...and a 1/10th of 1% fee increase over the cost to hunt as a NR in 1979 when comparing NR license fees to median household income in 1979 to 2021.

Sounds like a lot of crying over not much to me...

Obviously the opportunity cut to the limited entry elk by 50% is a huge concern but you left that out.

 

[Badger_55]

What loss in opportunity?

I keep hearing that, and yet I don't see it.

NR's are getting MORE than their allotment of deer, elk, and pronghorn tag in Wyoming.

They will CONTINUE to get more than their allotment of deer, elk, and pronghorn tags if this bill passes.

There is no lost opportunity...its that simple.

There sure would be in the LE quotas.

 

[BuzzH]

Obviously the opportunity cut to the limited entry elk by 50% is a huge concern but you left that out.

Except its not 50%...it's 32%. NR's now get 16% of LE elk, not 20%.

Going 90-10 would reduce it by 6% which is a 32% decrease.

 

[Badger_55]

None for NR elk hunters, none for all the region wide NR deer tags, none for the 50%+ of the available NR pronghorn tags.

Probably very little, if any loss for moose, sheep, goat and bison since Residents probably spend as much or more hunting those species which are normally nowhere close to where they live.

Less for the little towns around the bighorns that hold some limited entry units.

 

[Badger_55]

Except its not 50%...it's 32%. NR's now get 16% of LE elk, not 20%.

Going 90-10 would reduce it by 6% which is a 32% decrease.

Ok. My bad.. but still a decrease overall. small quotas in a lot of these LE units will prove that any percent will crush a lot of chances to draw for years. It's just tough to swallow. I get your frustrations and happiness now of this bill. I have conversations with residents who draw 2 blue chips in 3 years and some that haven't drawn in 14. Ive been fighting this point creep now for 10 years, throwing in for specials and now this just knocks me back down the stairs again.

 

[BuzzH]

Less for the little towns around the bighorns that hold some limited entry units.

Maybe...maybe not, you can't make that claim with any certainty.

I know residents that go guided for lots of species including elk, are soft and stay in hotels when hunting very far from home, and don't like to cook.

My wife and I used to stay in a plush BnB in Sundance for 3-5 days while we hunted general deer up that way...and tried every restaurant in town for dinner.

Saw plenty of NR's camped out in the Black Hills toughing it out, they weren't spending chit in the local businesses.

 

[Badger_55]

I don't know what a Resident deer tag is in Montana these days...was $16 when I was paying 4x resident fees under the ridiculous Montana Native fee's because I recall paying $64. That was 4-5 years or more ago.

Well done.. well done...

 

[Badger_55]

Maybe...maybe not, you can't make that claim with any certainty.

I know residents that go guided for lots of species including elk, are soft and stay in hotels when hunting very far from home, and don't like to cook.

My wife and I used to stay in a plush BnB in Sundance for 3-5 days while we hunted general deer up that way...and tried every restaurant in town for dinner.

Saw plenty of NR's camped out in the Black Hills toughing it out, they weren't spending chit in the local businesses.

Yes can't say that for sure, your right.. but I know my experience even with staying in the forest still picking up feed for my stock and gas for the genny and etc... also at the very end of the trip we head down to the bar and hang a pretty good tab for them. I know I'm probably counting cents now, but if I draw the tag I've been putting in for I am driving 3 states to come and scout as well. I enjoy a big local breakfast and a burger while I'm doing that as well.

 

[Falcon75]

I'm a deer hunter at heart so I crunched some numbers for some of the top deer units in Wyoming with a 90/10 split. I took the available tag numbers for 2021 off of the proposed tag numbers on the Wyoming Fish and Game website. I used the amount of residents applying for each unit from the 2020 applications
With a 90/10 split here are the odds and how they change for the resident:

Unit 87 goes from 4.6% to 7%
Unit 89 goes from 12% to 18%
Unit 90 goes from 5.9% to 8%
Unit 101 goes from 1.8 to 2%
Unit 102 goes from 3.9% to 5%
Unit 128 goes from 1.9% to 2.1%
Unit 130 goes from 1.9% to 2.1%

Working on crunching the NR numbers, but I will tell you already, it won't be good. For example, Unit 130 goes to 1 NR tag. In looking at the numbers, the windfall for the residents will be nominal statistically for a better chance of drawing. I am just stating numbers, and not saying that WY can't do what they want.

Rich

So why not ask for resident points so those units could be drawn at some point. If not enough opportunity point scheme will make a line. I would keep many units over counter but just saying for some units might make it more predictable

 

[Oak]

So why not ask for resident points so those units could be drawn at some point. If not enough opportunity point scheme will make a line. I would keep many units over counter but just saying for some units might make it more predictable

Preference point systems are the cause of most of the angst over this proposal. I wouldn’t wish a points system on anyone.

 

[BuzzH]

Preference point systems are the cause of most of the angst over this proposal. I wouldn’t wish a points system on anyone.

Worth reading twice...

 

[Nick28]

Uffda, this is just getting brutal.

 

[Bowhuntrben]

I can’t wait for hunting season to get here so we can start reading hunting stories again.

 

[mdhunter]

Good lord this thread was long and at times painful. I apply in WY along with other multiple states. I understand them getting in line with others at 90-10 but don’t appreciate it if the 10% split comes with crappier units. That said, it is what it is. Overall I don’t feel worse off than other western states, just not any better.

As an east coast guy i can tell you that many of us don’t understand the state control of animals on federal land. I remember it goes back to a “king“and “law” but more wondered what else do western states control on federal land?

 

[JDH]

That email was sent by Sy and WOGA. Pretty hypocritical as they are responsible for WY wilderness rule, NR early elk application date. I do hope they can stop the bill though. The 90/10 for OIL tags I agree with. Leave all others as is and I personally like the regular vs Special pools.

I was posting more to let people know who to contact then the whining at the beginning. I'm sure it's an autogenerated email but I plan on replying and telling I would care more if they would work to rescind the wilderness guide requirement.

 

[JDH]

I wish people would rally around this subject in states like mine where anyone can walk in and buy a tag and go hunt.

Ohio doesn’t have near the game on public land as the western states which is part of why I travel out west to hunt.

that being said, I keep seeing “opportunity for residents”. Come on out to Ohio. For less than $300 you can go hunt as much as you want on our limited public land. You’ll see a big reason why some travel to hunt out west.

plus Ohio doesn’t have antelope, mule deer or elk last time I checked

Same here...$150 for NR deer tag. No draw. Heck, I'll even take you to the spot where I found a 145" WT dead head two years ago. You could even use somebody's hang on stand that's about 50 yards away from where I found it. Or if the wind isn't right you can sit down the creek a little in one of the 4 stands I found in a 20 acre spot.

 

[Falcon75]

Phew. Dodged that for now 4 to 1 against bill. Still think need to burn my points but maybe not this year and stay with Colorado deer plan

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Lest anyone think WYOGA is on your side, they put on the record they want NR elk tags to be $1400 regular, $2000 in the special...

 

[Buffs35]

Lest anyone think WYOGA is on your side, they put on the record they want NR elk tags to be $1400 regular, $2000 in the special...

If I had to choose between better drawing odds/tag allocation or lower costs tags, I'd choose the former.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Phew. Dodged that for now 4 to 1 against bill. Still think need to burn my points but maybe not this year and stay with Colorado deer plan

Good outcome for non residents. Bad outcome for residents. All in all its a wash.

On the positive side, with just one vote, the TRW committee has single handedly saved the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation from imminent demise. Additionally, a hunter from New York can go back to caring about the land he owns out West. Well done ladies and gentlemen!